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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Some Guy On YouTube Says RED ONE Actually Pixel Shifts.....

Noah Kadner said:
The pickadamsbrain.com site is totally gone now. Was that inter-corporate warfare happening?

-Noah
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Although I didn't see the video this line is at the end of the ShootoutFINAL pdf file. "Adam Mills is HD Engineer of High End TV, Nashville, TN."

My guess is embarrassment. I'm not sure I would rent any camera from a rental house that would publish such a flawed "shootout".
 
are you other robert frank not the photographer right?
 
filmmaker's gang said:
are you other robert frank not the photographer right?
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Well, I am a photographer and filmmaker, but about 40 years younger than "that" Robert Frank.

I would have to assume your not "that" Winston Churchill, because he's long gone... oh wait that's your signature not your name!! :laugh:
 
I think Tarek makes a reasonable point - there is a fairly aggressive attitude here towards other products and some naysayers. I think that's also pretty much in line with many other single-product forums, however.

RED has gone from being the ugly sister to Cinderella - it has little left to prove in most pro circles, and appears to me to have reached a 'tipping point' in usage and recognition. It has also changed the product line-ups of much larger companies - witness the DSLR HD video revolution.

It now falls upon RED users to behave as magnanimous winners, not outsider fanboys - behaviour like that only increases the dislike of other professionals, and dilutes the good messages here.

Relax and enjoy things like this - you won the battle. Be calm, polite and professional with the ill-informed - they will listen to you more if you do.
 
Robert Frank said:
Well, I am a photographer and filmmaker, but about 40 years younger than "that" Robert Frank.

I would have to assume your not "that" Winston Churchill, because he's long gone... oh wait that's your signature not your name!! :laugh:
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looooooooool :rofl: just perfect.. you're humorous too :beer:

I LIKE IT!

- Borat Sagdiyev
 
shashbugu said:
Red is not for you keep shooting film or buy your gh1hmiftrd cam, your post is pointless
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Good job proving Tarek's point.

One reason I didn't register earlier was exactly the sort of attitude shashbugu just displayed. If this forum is ever going to be really helpful to RED users, one must be able to bring up negative issues without the fear of being mindlessly shouted down.
 
Petri Teittinen said:
Good job proving Tarek's point.

One reason I didn't register earlier was exactly the sort of attitude shashbugu just displayed. If this forum is ever going to be really helpful to RED users, one must be able to bring up negative issues without the fear of being mindlessly shouted down.
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There are all sorts of people on every forum. Generally people on this forum are very helpful. Every once in awhile someone blurts something out, but who cares- it,s not personal- how could it be? If you need some help with Red just ask- I guarantee you will get an answer.
 
Here is a link to highend tv's camera rental page... http://www.highendtv.com/ENG.htm

Note the test results on the right side of the page.

Based on the pdf file... this so called apples to apples test is erronious on many levels. I admire the effort put forth to conduct this test, but it's not really a controlled test. For starters, no two "identical" HD monitors look the same, even at factory settings. It also doesn't take into account any of the post workflow elements of the Red One, which is a crucial component of getting the best looking images from the camera, not to mention that the Red One is not a 3200 K native balanced camera. The author of the PDF file when he makes the argument for Red at the end of the document, also seems to confuse 4k data (resolution) with the "latitude" the RAW format provides.

The winner of this test, Varicam, is in my humble opinion, a heavily compressed format that does not react well to anything beyond moderate color correction and is less than ideal for VFX work. It's codec is also notoriously buggy between applications in post production. It's a very noisy format when underexposed and besides the upside of the low data rate which helps save on drive space, it would be a distant third on my preferred list of formats tested. From my post production perspective, CineAlta and Red One both blow Varicam away by a mile.

I comment here not as a defender of the Red per say... there are aspects of this test that are unbalanced across the board. The premise is flawed too... you simply do not take the camera out of the box and pipe it directly over the air unless your shooting ENG news, and we all know what that looks like, so workflow is a reality of how you get the best look possible, no matter what you shoot with. It's really apples to oranges. Comparing all DVCPRO 720 cameras to each other, all 1080 HDCAM's to each other makes more sense to me.
 
Liam Hall said:
It's seems there's a lot of BS flying around at the moment. Sony had a showcase for their new cameras in London yesterday and did a fair amount of muck spreading about RED. Apparently, we're all fanboys who know sod all, the camera is more expensive than is published, there have been quite a lot of badly shot jobs with the camera, the work flow sucks...

I wasn't there, one of my camera ops was though - I had to laugh, particularly since the F35 has gone up in price to £150,000 because of the weak pound:D
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Yes there is. There was another thread recently (can't remember) that mentioned a article from a competitors 'expert' that made out that bayer cameras did not really record the resolution intended, and threw some mud at other competitors too. I easily pointed out that the real fallacy was certain things said, as bayer does record a pixel of detail for each pixel (admittedly interpolation muddies the water a little, but can be done pretty well).

The general problem we face in the community is: I have become aware that many people do not know how to think, and even though they think they do, let alone taking a smaller set of information and deriving more in-depth information. But in the general community, the real BS is those pretending that things are different for personal gain, delusionaly or deliberately. In professionalism this is also faced, as rules of conduct in professionalism used to have a religious basis originally but now are shifting to a relativistic humanistic basis. 'Our' is a short step from 'me', instead of 'You' (God) and (all of) 'us'.
 
The two MAIN issues with that "test" are:

- RED's HD-SDI output is a "quick & dirty" debayer intended for monitoring purpose only

- Unlike RED, all the other cameras process their signal in the camera and apply white-balance, gamma-curves, etc. and record the "final" version of the image that can usually be adjusted in the post to a very limited degree. RED on the contrary does not process the sensor data and records the RAW images that must be adjusted in post with great freedom. Therefore RED's monitoring output is the only orange amongst the other apples they were comparing...

:) Peter
 
The irony of the whole "test" is when You take a second look at the results and keep in mind what I have stated above (post #95):

Rank / Total Points / Average / Make and model
1 - 2060 - 89.57 - Panasonic HDC27H “Varicam”
2 - 2050 - 89.13 - Panasonic HPX3000
3 - 1905 - 82.83 - Sony EX3
4 - 1860 - 80.87 - Panasonic HPX500
5 - 1810 - 78.70 - Sony F900R Cine-Alta
6 - 1795 - 78.04 - RED One
7 - 1780 - 77.39 - Canon XL-H1

The "quick & dirty" debayer on the reference monitoring HD-SDI output on the RED ONE actually competes with the other cameras beating Canon XL-H1 by 15 points and only 15 point behind Sony F900R Cine-Alta - that is less then 0.7% difference. Even the extreme difference between the winner (Varicam) and RED is only 11%...

Not bad for the "quick & dirty" debayer...

:thumbsup:

:) Peter
 
is this rank a joke?
 
peter majtan said:
the irony of the whole "test" is when you take a second look at the results and keep in mind what i have stated above (post #95):

rank / total points / average / make and model
1 - 2060 - 89.57 - panasonic hdc27h “varicam”
2 - 2050 - 89.13 - panasonic hpx3000
3 - 1905 - 82.83 - sony ex3
4 - 1860 - 80.87 - panasonic hpx500
5 - 1810 - 78.70 - sony f900r cine-alta
6 - 1795 - 78.04 - red one
7 - 1780 - 77.39 - canon xl-h1

the "quick & dirty" debayer on the reference monitoring hd-sdi output on the red one actually competes with the other cameras beating canon xl-h1 by 15 points and only 15 point behind sony f900r cine-alta - that is less then 0.7% difference. Even the extreme difference between the winner (varicam) and red is only 11%...

Not bad for the "quick & dirty" debayer...

:thumbsup:

:) peter
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Peter FOR THE WIN
 
Where is the link to the test on their pages? Apparently they took down their rating off the main camera page: http://www.highendtv.com/ENG.htm

It seems they did that shoot-out for multi-cam jobs where some of their customers have ask them for a P2 deck along a Red to record the SDI when they don't want to mess with the Red workflow. What fails is that they didn't include that in the first paragraph.

However I would assume the links below the double-blind ratings would take you to the pdf, right? So did they take it down already?
 
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