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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Build 17...

Karim said:
a great feature could be 2k full sensor at 120 fps
Click to expand...
Oh God.

2K scaled ain't gonna happen. No point to it anyway, since you'd get no framerate benefits. It's harder on the hardware to downscale from the full sensor on the fly than just to shoot the 4K, and the 4K is limited by the sensor's clock speed, and the RED folk have understandably become tired of saying so. Take it back before Jim has a cow and leaves again.
 
Nice post... anyone who is asking for 2K scaled just doesn't understand what is going on. Pretty easy to understand.

Jim
 
Let's give the RED team some time to build the epic.
I think we will all be surprised what this baby will offer at the end.
The Epic will have the latest chips and sensors from the market.
I'm very confident that Jim wont stop till it is perfect in his eyes.

With the new cam, they can put all their new knowledge in to it and go even further. Not that the RED 1 isn't great allready, I love mine, but the Epic will probably adress all our wishes and more.

So keep cool, RED is on a good path and they haven't even started yet.

Tim
 
Jannard said:
It is really fun to buy a camera that improves (at no extra cost) every month or so. If I were an owner (I am), I would be smiling at every firmware upgrade.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim, I love the marketing, yes its fun, but has the camera met its original specs. already? Or are these "at no extra cost" firmware upgrades simply getting us to where we thought our money was taking us originally? I don't feel like Im getting something for free with the upgrades, I just feel like im patient for the specsifications that drove my demand initially to materialise. 4k@60fps has gone, audio is lack lustre, and I cant afford an Epic, so thankyou and keep going.. Im not spoilt or ungrateful, glad to help with your research and development (which is why you have my money..)..but just saying. Great news though, can hardly wait for 4.5k anamorphic
 
obin said:
From my understanding the sensor runs at 60fps 4k all the time...so I don't see an issue other then storage write speed.
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Its the redcode processing that needs more horsepower that is the bottleneck.
 
Ariana said:
I like to think of all the things they did deliver that weren't on the list.
If they held to that list, then I'd hate to think of all the things we wouldn't have or might not get with future updates.
Click to expand...

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head...! :)
 
Ronx, the original specs did not include REDCODE RAW recording at all.... Audio is not just fixed for the new boards, but elevated to a very high level indeed.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Ronx, the original specs did not include REDCODE RAW recording at all.... Audio is not just fixed for the new boards, but elevated to a very high level indeed.

Graeme
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With all due respect, Im just pointing out as a customer, all the marketing said 4k@60fps, even in the nab2008 pdf, and ever since Ive known about the R1, redcode has been the recording format used. These are what drove my demand, especially since I cant time travel. If i didnt point this out I would be spoilt. I just read about the audio upgrade, thats a major problem fixed, a big thankyou for realising this.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head...! :)
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Yeah, but different people, different needs.. I just sometimes object to being told to be grateful, thats something i can manage on my own.. Red innovate, cool.. thats what new companies do
 
4K at 60 fps

4K at 60 fps

Its the redcode processing that needs more horsepower that is the bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Ronx, with equal respect, RECODE RAW was never promised to run at 4K at 60 fps.

Look, the sensor DOES deliver its full rated fps speed. Go shoot 4K RAW at 29.97 with Open Gate selected and 4.5K at 59.94 fps is exactly what the sensor delivering.

If we had gone ahead and built the ~ $10K Uncompressed RAW Optical Port option, would you have bought it? The device on the other end needs to record 600+ MBytes/sec and would probably cost at least $80K ...

If your answer to the above is yes, then we have a better deal : EPIC.

EPIC upgrade from RED-ONE ~ $ 20K............RED-ONE 4K 60 fps upgrade ~ $100K
 
ronx said:
With all due respect, Im just pointing out as a customer, all the marketing said 4k@60fps, even in the nab2008 pdf, and ever since Ive known about the R1, redcode has been the recording format used. These are what drove my demand, especially since I cant time travel. If i didnt point this out I would be spoilt. I just read about the audio upgrade, thats a major problem fixed, a big thankyou for realising this.
Click to expand...

Nowhere in the NAB brochure does it claim 4K @ 60fps. It lists 4K and 1-60fps as separate specs, nowhere does it say they occur together.

4K @ 60fps was always footnoted to require the uncompressed RAW port. 4K @ 60fps was never promised as an on-board record format. In fact, when many of us put down our deposit money, including me, the camera could not record better than 2K on-board. NAB '07 brought us the announcement of 4K on-board, but no one ever claimed it could do 60fps... In fact, there were only hopes that it would get to 30fps and no promises.

And I see Stuart has clarified the 4K @ 60fps via the RAW port issue, again.

As of right now, the only features my RED One is not delivering that were claimed when I put down my deposit are the scaled RGB modes. Scaled modes are not practical and make little sense on-camera. And IMO, same with trying to record RGB on camera. As sexy as that originally specified 1080p 4:4:4 mode scaled from the 35mm sensor area sounded, I much prefer the 4K 16:9 REDCODE 36 we have now. No complaints here.
 
well that's 20k for more framerates at full fov j don't have.
5k for more framerates at full fov sure. 10k? Maybe...

Its just the fact everytime I shoot I need it....;(
 
I guess I will start playing with pixel motion and see if we can get good results from that. I don't think shooting 24fps will be enough motion data for great pixel motion though.....
 
Stuart English said:
Ronx, with equal respect, RECODE RAW was never promised to run at 4K at 60 fps.

Look, the sensor DOES deliver its full rated fps speed. Go shoot 4K RAW at 29.97 with Open Gate selected and 4.5K at 59.94 fps is exactly what the sensor delivering.

If we had gone ahead and built the ~ $10K Uncompressed RAW Optical Port option, would you have bought it? The device on the other end needs to record 600+ MBytes/sec and would probably cost at least $80K ...

If your answer to the above is yes, then we have a better deal : EPIC.

EPIC upgrade from RED-ONE ~ $ 20K............RED-ONE 4K 60 fps upgrade ~ $100K
Click to expand...

You're missing the point, maybe 4k was a bad example.. its about marketing. My loyalty is to my backers, ahead of anyone else, including Red. They lend me money, I give it to Red. When I say to them, the camera will do this, or that, but then have to explain to them it doesn't, that would be fine. But when I feel I'm being told to be grateful, or feel lucky for camera improvements, well... look, Research and development is already Reds primary focus is it not?, so don't lay the subliminal guilt trip, its you're job and your future (that you also happen to love..).. and we all like Jim, right, so..

The Red One IS the most technologically advanced camera in the world, in terms of price/value/image quality and data ergonomics, this is what i tell people, no Red marketing needed here, the Product does speak for itself, when people see the images, and especially WHEN the software and post side matures, which is happening quicker every few months, no problems from me, my iMac does the job at the moment.
I feel Red, and Jim in particular, should NEVER be on the defensive, and I sometimes detect they are, like emphasising the not-yet-complete/next firmware upgrade being free? Do you want to be judged by your own standards, or by what has gone before? Do you want to quote the company that released two identical camera bodies, with different firmware, for different prices, or do you want to be the company that makes the best cameras possible with the most technologically advanced software on the planet, and a reputation for improving things? Maybe its me, it just seems a little uncool, insecure? and this ceaseless handholding from fan boys, in my opinion, ain't needed.. its boring and unnecessary and distracts from information flow, please stop! I don't mean the verbal pats on the back and gratefullness should diminish, they're essential for all parties, I just don't want to think about whether im making a positive or critical remark about something Red, that might offend someone elses sense of loyalty, because its just my opinion, from the real world, part of the process, so get off my back and go soak up all the feedback, its free! :w00t: or, alternatively advertise the fact that customers can "purchase" software updates on Red.com, at competitive rates :angry02:, then later on reveal that its free..Ooh! :usd: . Meanwhile, I'll go tell my investors that the camera does record 4k@60fps, theoretically, if you buy an unavailable product :) ...its like accusing people of being spoilt, just because marketing has left them feeling slightly disappointed, its a bit much, the marketing was optional.., avoiding it can be difficult!
I 'm not disappointed in any way with the camera as it is, or Red customer service, and kept myself informed of changes, I just don't want that to change and I WILL make comments, agreeing with them is optional

ps, love the camera, ..
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Nowhere in the NAB brochure does it claim 4K @ 60fps. It lists 4K and 1-60fps as separate specs, nowhere does it say they occur together.

4K @ 60fps was always footnoted to require the uncompressed RAW port. 4K @ 60fps was never promised as an on-board record format. In fact, when many of us put down our deposit money, including me, the camera could not record better than 2K on-board. NAB '07 brought us the announcement of 4K on-board, but no one ever claimed it could do 60fps... In fact, there were only hopes that it would get to 30fps and no promises.

And I see Stuart has clarified the 4K @ 60fps via the RAW port issue, again.

As of right now, the only features my RED One is not delivering that were claimed when I put down my deposit are the scaled RGB modes. Scaled modes are not practical and make little sense on-camera. And IMO, same with trying to record RGB on camera. As sexy as that originally specified 1080p 4:4:4 mode scaled from the 35mm sensor area sounded, I much prefer the 4K 16:9 REDCODE 36 we have now. No complaints here.
Click to expand...

I based my decisions on things I read, when I read them. I can't comment on your expectations and interpretations, or when you had them. My comments were not about specifics, just about marketing in general, and the ambiguity it sometimes creates, lets not cover old ground... I'm not a fan of it, possibly its Jim' genius. 1080p 4:4:4 never sounded sexy to me, it went under my radar by several thousand feet, maybe because I'm greedy...
 
4K 60 fps

4K 60 fps

You're missing the point, maybe 4k was a bad example..look, Research and development is already Reds primary focus is it not?, so don't lay the subliminal guilt trip, its you're job and your future .. ps, love the camera, ..
Click to expand...

Ronx, you are correct that our focus has to be ( and is ) to serve the needs of our customer, or else we won't have a business. I just wanted to point out that 4K @ 60 fps recording never was a RED-ONE specification except via the optional uncompressed RAW port, and that there is a better financial deal than that on the table for our customers now - the EPIC upgrade, which will give you all of that and some more.

Sorry if that sounds like laying on a guilt trip, certainly was not the intention.
 
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