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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

Yep gonna reserve mine as the free remote offer is still aplicable as he mentioned.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
As far as the 10-22 - that is a lens that is critical for us underwater guys but we were mainly just using it fixed at the wide end or possibly a variable prime so aren't concerned with the aperture shift. For most of your shooting though you should probably look at the 24-70mm F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8 L series zooms as they are the top quality glass and won't have any iris issues and as Thor has posted they even perform very well in terms of breathing.
And although the still camera guys think of them as being expensive at about $1100 and $1600 (for the IS version) respectively, coming from the video world that seems dirt cheap to me and the other thing with the L lenses is that you can buy them mail order and anytime you want you can sell them on ebay for 80% or more of what you paid for them within 3 days - there really isn't much depreciation. For the wide side if the aperture issue is a problem you can use the 16-35 F2.8L for about $1400 and use the 10-22 as a specialty lens for the extreme wide.
Click to expand...
Or this wider in hype these days:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6318
 
Not sure what you are asking. But consider priorities

Not sure what you are asking. But consider priorities

Gordon Prince said:
Or this wider in hype these days:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6318
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you are asking?

Third party lenses aren't officially supported. I would suggest you choose only USM Canon lenses at this point and probably the newer L series are the safest to get good performance. The 10-22 is virtually an L series - many places have pointed out that the optical technology and basic build is L quality - but L designation is only used for lenses capable of full frame use. The EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM (about $950) looks like it may be the same situation but I don't think you can expect it for the other cheaper EF-S lenses or off brands.

I imagine if some specific application lens- say a 9 or 10mm prime F2.8 Sigma came along that wasn't available in the Canon line - we could persuade or pay Birger to test/evaluate/program for it but it is probably unreasonable to expect them to try a bunch of other off brand lenses so we can save a few dollars on a cheaper, possibly inferior lens. They've already taken us from the $30,000 range to the $800-$1500 range - pushing to go from $800 to $500 probably shouldn't be a priority. I'd rather see them get the basic Canon lenses working well and then be able to concentrate on expanding the capabilities of the controller - i.e. multiple focus presets, transitions between presets, etc. and who knows...?
 
I have both Canon & Nikon lenses. Will these mounts be interchangeable (with some semblance of ease) on the Birger mount, or will it require removing the whole thing? Sorry if this has been answered already.

Also, may I request that the Birger team go ahead and start a new thread whenever they have updates? I'm a very simple man (ask my wife) and it's hard for me to keep track after 37+ pages. :)
 
Stokestack said:
Hm, that's perplexing. Doesn't the lens provide the focal-length information? It's right there in the EXIF info when you shoot with a Canon zoom. I wouldn't think that an external zoom motor would be a necessary or even reliable source of this information.
Click to expand...

Yes it the lens does provide this information. But the lenses only have an 8 or 16 count encoder to product this information. It turns out that this lens gives 14 discrete values:

10mm f/3.5
11mm f/3.5
12mm f/3.5
13mm f/3.8
14mm f/3.8
15mm f/4.0
16mm f/4.0
16mm f/4.1
17mm f/4.1
18mm f/4.3
19mm f/4.3
20mm f/4.5
21mm f/4.5
22mm f/4.5

This is the limit of precision to the number system in the lens. So without massaging the numbers there is a 10-15% jump in brightness between some of the steps. Now, of we were to increase the precision of aperture by a factor of four (0.05 increments) and fit a curve to it, the numbers look more like (rough guess, no real math involved):

10mm f/3.40
11mm f/3.50
12mm f/3.60
13mm f/3.70
14mm f/3.80
15mm f/3.95
16mm f/4.05
16mm f/4.10
17mm f/4.15
18mm f/4.20
19mm f/4.30
20mm f/4.40
21mm f/4.50
22mm f/4.60

And, now the jumps are more like 5% worst case. So, one can get a rather good result with this for exposure compensation, with this lens. To get a truly good result, one will want to use curve fit numbers from the lens (which we can probably provide in the mount) and then use a loop filter to compensate on a frame by frame basis for the lack of precision in the encoder... or just use a zoom motor to enhance the encoder information that is already available in the lens, by a factor of 10 or more.

Depends on what you are shooting and/or doing with the footage. For VFX you would need the motor. For low budget talking heads, probably not. The choice is yours.

We will give you the best data that the lens is capable of providing. This data is not as good as that from a Cooke /i lens when it comes to focal length and aperture. If that ilevel of data is needed we will offer an accessory zoom motor that will allow our lens mount to enhance the precision of the data coming from the encoder already in the lens. Details to follow after we start shipping the mounts.

We are committed to providing a result with high end SLR lenses that is every bit as good as the cinema glass with external motors from an image quality perspective (thanks to the glass manufacturers, we have nothing to do with this part), control and smoothness of motion, and meta data for use in post.
 
Hi Mike

Just to say a big thank you for allowing Erik to use your RED to continue and finalize the Birger Canon mount. This is certainly going to speed up the delivery of the mount to all the reservation holders. Cheers, Russell


AquaVideoRed206 said:
Thanks, guys and I'm counting on it too!



I think you might have a point there stokestack. I think the main thing he was trying to say is that because of the variable aperture you need to think of it as a variable prime. I think he got himself confused by thinking into the next phase - i.e. he had mentioned a long time ago that they do get the zoom info thru the lens and that at some time in the future it left open the possibility that they could use that info for breathing compensation and that would require a zoom motor since the zoom on the lens is manual only.-So like you say it seems like it may be possible to do the iris compensation in software.

From what I understand, I think RED made substantial physical changes to the front end of the camera for the new mount and he has to redo the circuit board. I remember him posting that they bought their own pick and place machine so they can do most of the board manufacturing in house - but it is still a pretty significant headache to change at this point and he's probably got to be pretty focused on just getting it physically working again.

As far as the 10-22 - that is a lens that is critical for us underwater guys but we were mainly just using it fixed at the wide end or possibly a variable prime so aren't concerned with the aperture shift. For most of your shooting though you should probably look at the 24-70mm F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8 L series zooms as they are the top quality glass and won't have any iris issues and as Thor has posted they even perform very well in terms of breathing.
And although the still camera guys think of them as being expensive at about $1100 and $1600 (for the IS version) respectively, coming from the video world that seems dirt cheap to me and the other thing with the L lenses is that you can buy them mail order and anytime you want you can sell them on ebay for 80% or more of what you paid for them within 3 days - there really isn't much depreciation. For the wide side if the aperture issue is a problem you can use the 16-35 F2.8L for about $1400 and use the 10-22 as a specialty lens for the extreme wide.

Just as a side note, I know it was frustrating for people not to know what was going on but I think this change was exactly what Erik was afraid of as a worst case. The repeated delays and then the mount change just made it hard to say anything. I had concerns too and fortunately it didn't change much for me as far as underwater housings - but it was a pretty significant knuckleball for the design of a different mount (and it may have major repercussions for the guys that made the FD mount as well). I know Erik is focused - and I want to get my new toy back ASAP as well - so he knows I will be nudging him. I think we all need to just sit back and think how significant this product is ($1450 to turn a $1500 lens into the same capability as a $40K lens - with a free follow focus to boot - that will be upgraded to wireless and probably substantial cool controls as well), be patient and let him get it worked out.
Click to expand...
 
birgerEngineer said:
We are committed to providing a result with high end SLR lenses that is every bit as good as the cinema glass with external motors from an image quality perspective (thanks to the glass manufacturers, we have nothing to do with this part), control and smoothness of motion, and meta data for use in post.
Click to expand...

Erik, this is enough raw meat to feed the caged animals for the next month or so.:biggrin:

ETA: Also wanted to say a huge thanks to AquaVideo for the loan of the RED. It must feel a little bit like you've donated your body to science . . . while alive.:)
 
Raw meat, etc.

Raw meat, etc.

birgerEngineer said:
We are committed to providing a result with high end SLR lenses that is every bit as good as the cinema glass with external motors from an image quality perspective (thanks to the glass manufacturers, we have nothing to do with this part), control and smoothness of motion, and meta data for use in post.
Click to expand...

eclaire said:
Erik, this is enough raw meat to feed the caged animals for the next month or so.:biggrin:
Click to expand...

That is some pretty good raw meat... it's what I was hoping for, but wasn't sure if I could expect it - thanks, Erik.


eclaire said:
ETA: Also wanted to say a huge thanks to AquaVideo for the loan of the RED. It must feel a little bit like you've donated your body to science . . . while alive.:)
Click to expand...

Aw shucks, its more like just a kidney... But seriously, props also to Ken Corben (sharkguy) since he has loaned me his pre-100 camera for over a week to get some of my stuff done, and I am going to beg him to let me keep it over the weekend before I ship it back to RED for him to get its X update, so I can continue with my work and still leave my #206 with Erik. Without Ken helping me, I probably couldn't be helping Erik.

Jim and the RED team have given us a great core, but the whole REDUSER community provides great value added in terms of fleshing the system out.
 
I just fleshed out my Canon glass anticipating this mount - I have faith!

I have most of the lenses you were talking about (no 10-22) and the quality of the L glass is fantastic.

I am having fun with the 14mm lens now - not as much distortion as I would have expected from such a wide angle lens. I am shooting the MkIIn so that is a mag factor of 1.3x - even in the store on the 5d it is impressive.

and THANKS Aqua & Ken

GO E!!!
 
jing said:
How long is the reservation line right now?
Click to expand...

We will ship in two waves for each of the mounts: the first ten production units, and then the rest that are currently on order. After this, availability will be stock to two weeks.

The second wave will start shipping about two weeks after the first, and based on the current reservation list, will take about two weeks to complete.
 
I'm considering putting in one tomorrow, friday... but I was wondering when I would get it because it might be a little strange for me to get it before I get my red in March. :)
 
Adam Levins said:
Hi Jing,

Have a look on the order forum. You can specify for Birger not to ship your order before a given date.

I personally asked for June as I will not have a RED till then at least.
Click to expand...

I don't even know when I'll even afford my RED. In the meantime, I'm working with a JVC HD200/Brevis35 adapter setup, and want my Birger mount asap; so I sent Erik my Brevis to see how will mount on it. Hopefully there'll be no major issue there. Erik told me it works pretty well on the RedRock M2.
 
Thanks Adam. I guess was in "forum thread reading mode"... read words, skip, skip, read words.

So we're "in line" and get priority when our time comes along? Can you bump up your time due if, for some great reason, Red starts to getting ahead of schedule?
 
We have started processing reservations again today. We should be in touch with all reservation holders by the end of the week, and will close the initial reservation period (and free offer) by the end of the month.

All changes to the RED camera are now understood. We need a few days to finish implementing the required changes to be able to establish the schedule.

Please see the following post for information on the changes:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=137239&postcount=46
 
Hi Erik,

An affordable autocollimator or even just a collimator is a good idea. What kinda target are you thinking about using? Simple cross hair, siemens star, 1951 airforce resolution ?

So far as mount swapping, sounds like it's getting back to something like this again. Except this was even easier as they just screwed on and off.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Eclair-ACL-adap...oryZ4691QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

xheers,
 
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