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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Jim Deserves Better

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Thank you Jim for all the support over the years. From Oakley sponsorships of my snowboarding films to making a camera that I support my family with on a day to day basis. You have been there for Mack Dawg Productions and I have enjoyed and appreciated your help.
Have some fun and be very proud of what you have done.
Much Respect!
Dawger
 
There are all kinds of people on CML, smart and not, good and bad. Some are old farts who don't like new things, some are bitter olds farts who don't even like young people. I think Jim can dismiss their comments, just as many readers of CML are smart enough to do. Art Adams does sometimes say some useful and interesting things, but anything Red related I just roll my eyes.

I had to spend the day with a truly old fart who said "I don't trust any camera that doesn't have a tape deck or a film reel on it. You don't shoot real projects with a computer with a lens stuck on it." He didn't even trust any light that was not tungsten, and felt that non-linear editing was a step backwards. And he was 38. ("Old age can happen at any age" - Woody Allen).

So Jim, hey - think different if people will get up in arms. Who cares? My grandmother said "Most people get a mix of smiles and frowns, but everybody smiles at the village idiot." You're the opposite if the village idiot, some people are going to get pissed off and nasty for whatever reason. I know a guy who hates you because he is jealous of your wife, whom he feels should be with him. (I won't say names, but likely you can guess.)

I've learned to embrace conflict in my own life - I was raised that way (never violent conflict, just debate, discussion). Where there is lots of passionate voices, disagreeing, there is lots of learning. People don't like me? F--- 'em. I didn't win any popularity contests in high school, and I don't care about winning them now.
 
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Jim,

I have a feeling you have a lot of people around you that love you.... That is all that ever matters.

Until we meet one day, rest well and thank you for all your hard work.
 
Jim has some pretty strong feelings toward Geoff... There's some truth there. What was the context of the remark? Possibily a misunderstanding?

Geoff, did you ever have a chance to apologize? Are we clear now that the Red One was not as "scam?"

A simple "Damn Jim, I was wrong," seems like it could go a long way. I know he's watching.






Elsie N said:
So, is Geoff Boyle the originator of the "RED is a scam!" comment? That's interesting. He will probably go down in history with the guy that told Einstein his Theory of Relativity was BS. That guys name was... was... Oh well, his name didn't survive... but Einstein! Who will ever forget THAT name!?
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Forums like CML and Cinematography.Com are made up of individuals with individual opinions, there is no organizing principle to promote a single viewpoint, no board that sets policy on issues. You can't force individual members to say good or bad things if they don't want to, nor can you blame the whole forum for the comments of a few, anymore than you should blame RedUser for some of the whacky opinions posted here.

Second, we all need to cut each other some slack for things we might have said in 2006, opinions do evolve over time!

That said, I think Jim Jannard will be regarded in cinema camera history like Mitchell, Arnold & Richter, Gottschalk, Fred Waller, Michael Todd, Jean-Pierre Beulieu, etc. -- visionaries who moved cinematography forward in new directions.

Jim was right more often than he was wrong, he saw the direction of that digital cinematography should be taking -- something that was "in the wind" in the mid-2000's -- that we should be capturing digital cinema with 35mm single-sensor cameras shooting 4K raw, and it should be affordable and practical to use. The baby steps that the manufacturing industry was taking were infuriating, beholden to 1990's HD camcorder and tape technology, and Jim wanted the future that we all saw coming, but he wanted it now, not in ten years, and not costing $200,000 per camera just to buy into that future. And he had the money and the will to make his vision a reality and we are all better off for it. He's changed the lives of thousands of filmmakers and altered the industry as a whole, which is much more than most of us will ever accomplish.

When the Red One first arrived, what were the alternatives? Tape-based HD cameras that were five times the cost, some 35mm single-sensor but many 2/3" 3-sensor. We had cameras that pointed in a similar direction as Red -- Dalsa Origin and Arri D20 -- but they were really prototypes testing certain principles, they had a number of limitations because of the raw data bottleneck at the time, and they weren't made in volume and priced to sell. We also had prosumer HD cameras shifting away to file-based recording, led by Panasonic, but the P2 technology wasn't going to handle 4K data; otherwise, everyone was relying on HDCAM-SR tape decks to make recording practical, and that was limited to 1080P. Making 4K raw recording practical for the average filmmaker on a budget was the wall that Red burst through like a tank in battle and the industry should be grateful.
 
geoffboyle said:
It is absolutely not.

It is a simple give me the facts place.

Facts not conjecture.
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Geoff, I'm the kind of guy who has patiently listened to an anti-RED rant from someone without ever letting on that I actually owned an EPIC-X. And I can tell you quite honestly, that CML's TONE *is* anti-RED. If you are seeing it as anything but, you've likely got some filters on that preserve your point of view. You are welcome to your own POV ofcourse, but that doesn't turn your POV into a fact.

I've stopped frequenting that list simply because it gave me no value as a RED EPIC owner, nor did it in any clear way help me address the shortcomings of the system I was bought into (and yes, there are shortcomings to the RED system as there are in any others, including Alexa).

The problem with 'facts' is that oftentimes they can be wrong. I believe there was a time when it was a known 'fact' that the earth was flat.
 
The man has fire in his belly, he lit up the industry in his own way, the warrior, a risk taker, an instigator, we needed this trait... It's because he's "hot headed" that we are here today, using the tools he created. I'm remember that $200k, Sony camera.... that was unpolite.

We need people to call out the BULLSHIT. Jim just needed to balance the sheets with Geoff and Art, there's more. People were wrong sometimes, here is an opportunity to make it right, it's simple stuff.


Ed David said:
Geoff and Art - I'm sorry Jim had to single you guys out. That was very unprofessional. I personally apologize to you two. You guys bring great shared learning and resources to cinematographers throughout the world.

What other CEO of a company sends a public farewell letter to his "community" with a take down of two cinematographers? Completely unprofessional. Good bye Jim! I love the red products and where it is going, but please, in the future can someone make sure if you have a hot-blooded CEO you control what he says publically?

Farewell Jim! And I welcome Jared! He knows how to be polite.
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Ed David said:
Geoff and Art - I'm sorry Jim had to single you guys out. That was very unprofessional. I personally apologize to you two. You guys bring great shared learning and resources to cinematographers throughout the world.

What other CEO of a company sends a public farewell letter to his "community" with a take down of two cinematographers? Completely unprofessional. Good bye Jim! I love the red products and where it is going, but please, in the future can someone make sure if you have a hot-blooded CEO you control what he says publically?

Farewell Jim! And I welcome Jared! He knows how to be polite.
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As a member of Reduser I find it appalling that you have the temerity to apologize on behalf of ?? Jim? members of Reduser?

You do not speak for Reduser so I rescind your apoligy with malice, Sir.

As for what other CEO would single out his detractors in his farewell address to the faithful? All of them who are open, honest, and frustrated. If he were like other CEOs, there would be no Dragon upgade... only a new camera to buy at a competitive price with a SONY or ARRI... (read, 6 figure $)

Please consider taking your Political Correctness to Washington or some other place where nothing gets done.
 
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Will Keir said:
The man has fire in his belly, he lit up the industry in his own way, the warrior, a risk taker, an instigator, we needed this trait... It's because he's "hot headed" that we are here today, using the tools he created. I'm remember that $200k, Sony camera.... that was unpolite.We need people to call out the BULLSHIT. Jim just needed to balance the sheets with Geoff and Art, there's more. People were wrong sometimes, here is an opportunity to make it right, it's simple stuff.
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It's a shame that a man who has done so much for this industry, can't put himself above trivial comments.
 
I'm re-reading Richard Rhodes' "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" and in it, you read that Ernest Rutherford was skeptical that atomic energy was going to ever happen, Neils Bohr was skeptical that enough U-235 could ever be extracted from raw uranium to make a bomb, and Edward Teller was skeptical at one point that the hydrogen bomb would ever work. And these were Nobel prize-winners, certifiable geniuses. So I wouldn't get bent out of shape that when in 2006, Red announced that within one year they were going to make a digital cinema 4K raw camera and sell it for $17,000, that smart people were skeptical, even cynical. I was! It had nothing to do with the principles, we all knew the technology was possible, even inevitable, but considering the three to five year R&D cycle that most electronic manufacturers deal with, one year seemed unlikely to me. And if that skepticism hurt Jim Jannard's feelings, well, I apologize, but it wasn't personal -- I didn't even know the guy at the time. It was just based on an analysis of the state of the industry at the time. I didn't realize that Jim would attack the problem with a Manhattan Project-type approach and get it out the door, maybe a bit late by his own standards, but much earlier than where trends were heading.
 
Awesome first post. Welcome Henry.

Henry Roosevelt said:
I've sat quietly in the corner of the Red forums for quite some time, absorbing from those who know more than myself. And it's a shame that I felt inclined to come out of hiding on this topic... but as it stands, I have to comment.

What is clear is that when passion is met with subjective cynicism (unfounded or not), it's hard for anyone not to take it personally... Especially when someone has given years of their life to a project. Innovators and filmmakers share in this. And it's a shame that Mr. Jannard has let it get the best of him.
I was introduced to the Red while working on The Social Network. It became abundantly clear from the beginning that in order to put myself in the same realm as some of the world's best- I should invest in the best. Since then, I've sunk every dime, and maxed out a credit card or two to get the Red Epic-- and now the Dragon.

Has it been worth it?

As a small independent filmmaker, Red has given me a tool that has made all the difference-- that makes me feel like a giant. So, as succinctly as I can put it and as loudly as I can say it: Jim Jannard, I don't know you… but I owe you, immensely. Your passion is what allows filmmakers, from the ground up, to live beyond their dreams. I'm pumped for my Red Dragon. I'm excited to start my first feature. Thank you!


Henry Roosevelt
nativeboyfilms.com
https://www.facebook.com/NativeBoyFilms
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David Mullen ASC said:
I'm re-reading Richard Rhodes' "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" and in it, you read that Ernest Rutherford was skeptical that atomic energy was going to ever happen, Neils Bohr was skeptical that enough U-235 could ever be extracted from raw uranium to make a bomb, and Edward Teller was skeptical at one point that the hydrogen bomb would ever work. And these were Nobel prize-winners, certifiable geniuses. So I wouldn't get bent out of shape that when in 2006, Red announced that within one year they were going to make a digital cinema 4K raw camera and sell it for $17,000, that smart people were skeptical, even cynical. I was! It had nothing to do with the principles, we all knew the technology was possible, even inevitable, but considering the three to five year R&D cycle that most electronic manufacturers deal with, one year seemed unlikely to me. And if that skepticism hurt Jim Jannard's feelings, well, I apologize, but it wasn't personal -- I didn't even know the guy at the time. It was just based on an analysis of the state of the industry at the time. I didn't realize that Jim would attack the problem with a Manhattan Project-type approach and get it out the door, maybe a bit late by his own standards, but much earlier than where trends were heading.
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David, I don't know the full issue, but seems to me that the "skepticism" continues, albeit in different shapes and forms. And given that, it sometimes feels like its not skepticism at all, but a general effort to undermine, specially when it comes from people who publicly favor RED competitors.... you know what I mean?

To be clear, I'm not referring to you or your healthy (and in the past) skepticism, but to the ongoing efforts to not give RED its due, but keep trying to drag it down.
 
Hi ! In the post he mentions someone named Jarret that he will take his place . Do you know who is Jarret? Just simple curiosity ! thanks ...
 
Elsie come down to earth man! sometimes a simple word will go further than a word used that everyone has to look up. Not every so called big word has to be used in every sentence unless you were raised that way but it might make people view you in the wrong way.
 
I'm not going to deny that there is a certain anti-Red faction out there, larger perhaps than the anti-(place name of unloved manufacturer here) factions that float around. But Red is a bold and brassy, rock-n-roll company, and that is bound to make it a target. Yes, sometimes I'm appalled by the automatic and unfair disparaging of Red technology that goes on at various industry venues.

But Geoff Boyle is not part of that; he's opinionated and says things off-the-cuff sometimes, but he is fact-based and image-based, he has excellent visual taste, and he works with all of these technologies on a regular basis. I've known Geoff since the pre-digital days and his strong opinions sometimes rubbed the big manufacturers like Kodak the wrong way, but he didn't take sides and he called things as he saw them. And he is always out there keeping up with new technologies and continually changing his mind -- a cranky comment about one piece of kit at NAB one year may turn into a praise the next year if that tool had improved itself, fixed what Geoff thought was wrong. Like me, he's probably never going to stick with one brand of anything for the rest of his life, there's no brand loyalty that all companies love and strive for (especially Red), he will go to whoever delivers what he needs at the time. But unlike me, Geoff is a strong personality who spends less time worrying about being politically correct, just like Jim Jannard. The world belongs to people like them.
 
Tony Harris said:
Elsie come down to earth man! sometimes a simple word will go further than a word used that everyone has to look up. Not every so called big word has to be used in every sentence unless you were raised that way but it might make people view you in the wrong way.
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Umm, Tony... which big word?

If you can't spell it, just copy and paste it.
 
The disrespect in calling a billionaire a scammer... cuts deep. Imagine putting up with people like that on a daily basis... when you've accomplished so much already? I'm no RED fanboy either... I disagree with many things Jim Jannard has done... but I cannot stand that language that is so popular in American culture. Yes I do believe Mr. Jannard can be downright unprofessional... but imagine putting up with the BS he has to put up with... a old man in his position? Yes we all seek for respect. I know I have been so profoundly offended by the unjustified actions of many in our industry. At the end of the day... we have a hater society. People just love to hate. If Jim had introduced the RED One at 100k+ he would have the respect he deserves industry wide. All this came from the price point being too low and fucking up the entire game.
 
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