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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DaVinci Resolve 10

Yeah, but the market segments, while defined as you say are getting more blurred all the time due to lots of reasons. Me, I find myself doing a big brand national spot one day, a student film the next (all paying btw!) so it's confusing. Most of the time I'm fine on the tangents, but episodic tv, the big panels would be nice to save a few seconds here and there on the crazy turnarounds, but again if its unscripted, budget doesn't justify.
As far as ultrascope, there has been virtually no improvement for ages (I mean stuff like at least give us re sizable windows. I know I know, CRT scopes were that size and we all got along just fine....)


https://vimeo.com/63685041
https://vimeo.com/57250981
 
Wow, this sure turned ugly fast:-)
I'm trying to thread carefully here , as Mike M and I have a history. So, I really hope to have an exchange of opinions without being personal.
I don't see it particularly problematic occasionally use Resolve without a panel. No biggie. But anyone using any type of color grading software on a professional level will not use it without. An efficent use of a panel is a landmark of a good colorist. No client will stand to watch a colorist grading their project with a mouse. So, I think we all can agree, that panel is a necessity, if color grading is one's profession. Does it have to be $30k or can $1200 do the job? I think Mike M already answered that question with his anecdote. He even admitted, that once he got used to it, it wasn't a big deal to use. So, if one can use a $1200 panel and be productive, why then use a $30k panel. I know I had pointed this out before, but it's one thing to work in a large facility and use their expensive panels and it's a different situation, when one has to reach into their own pocket for the $30k.
So, let me review.
1. You must use a panel to grade, if you're working as a colorist professionally.
2. It doesn't have to be an expensive type.
So, let's move onto the last point. Why does BM has to support third party hardware? Simple answer, see point number one. If BM wouldn't, then Resolve would be relegated to the hobbyists, occasional users and facilities with $30k to spend. Without inexpensive panels from Tangent and Avid there wouldn't be Resolve as it's stands today. BM wouldn't need to support all those hardware manufacturers, if there was an inexpensive alternative. How do I know? Look at Baselight and Baselight Editions support of Elements and MC Color. They don't have to support those panels, but they do, because they are smart. Baselight works with great Blackboard panels, but they realized a long time ago, that users may want cheaper alternatives. That's why for a long time Filmlight offered a support for JL Cooper. And when Filmlight does offer support on those panels, it's not done in a way, that completely defeats the purpose of using a panel to increase productivity. Using those panels on Baselight is a joy. The very same panels are cringeworthy on Resolve. But wait, there is more. FilmLight just introduced insanely great Slate- a much cheaper alternative to their own high end Blackboards. But somehow BM is unwilling to do the same. Every software manufacturer supports third party panels, because they all know, that that's what you must do, if you want to sell color grading software and to stay relevant and competitive. Slowly BM starts to realize this and they are slowly improving that support, because they have no choice, UNLESS they release an inexpensive alternative themselves. Then it's going to be a different story altogether.
 
I wonder if BMD cut the Resolve panel's price to $5995 and remove the 3rd panel support (including the old legacy panel from 2K Plus and previous Resolve) will their customer happy?
 
We have two good people acting like kids. Please stop.

Jim
 
Peace Villow said:
I wonder if BMD cut the Resolve panel's price to $5995 and remove the 3rd panel support (including the old legacy panel from 2K Plus and previous Resolve) will their customer happy?
Click to expand...

As I said, every color grading software manufacturer supports third party panels. If BM would stop supporting those panels, they would quickly slide into irrelevance and someone would very quickly take their place.
 
$1K Resolve software plus $6K Resolve full panel, I wonder which company can compete with that?

Hopefully BMD will make all our dream come true, AGAIN :)
 
jake blackstone said:
And when Filmlight does offer support on those panels, it's not done in a way, that completely defeats the purpose of using a panel to increase productivity. Using those panels on Baselight is a joy. The very same panels are cringeworthy on Resolve. .
Click to expand...

This is the only part of your post that I disagree with. I think Resolve's support for both the Tangent and Artist panels has been just fine from the day they introduced it. While it's certainly true that all functions are not directly mapped to them, the major ones that really need to be are and always have been. And while it's true that you often have to go through 3 keystrokes to do what you can on the DaVinci panels in one, I don't find that to be a real show stopper. As you pointed out, in my own experience, i found that i could work almost as quickly on the lower end panel as I could on the large one, albeit with some convenience items missing. And while it might be nice for them to enable custom user controlled mapping, its not imperative for them to do so in order to make the panels useful. They're quite useful already.

That being said, and this being RedUser, it would be nice if the R3D RAW controls could be exposed on the panels. As would use of the 4th trackball for offset, as on the DaVinci panels. And a knob for contrast. And........ come to think of it, maybe I actually agree with you more than I'm letting on.....:001_huh:
 
M Most said:
That being said, and this being RedUser, it would be nice if the R3D RAW controls could be exposed on the panels. As would use of the 4th trackball for offset, as on the DaVinci panels. And a knob for contrast. And........ come to think of it, maybe I actually agree with you more than I'm letting on.....:001_huh:
Click to expand...
Actually I always advocated a three trackballs mapping, like all others software and hardware manufacturers do. Unfortunately, now in version 10 there is a fourth trackball had been added for offsets control on a LGG page. So now, because both modes pages look axactly the same, it's more difficult to see which mode you're in, which adds even more to the confusion. On a happy note, contrast and pivot had been finally mapped to the panel. Oh well, you win some, you lose some:-)
 
jake blackstone said:
Unfortunately, now in version 10 there is a fourth trackball had been added for offsets control on a LGG page.
Click to expand...

You can do that now on the current version with resolve panel. You just need to activate Primary tab (the one with RGB bars) instead of LGG color wheel tab. Offset control on the 4th trackball is the best thing ever happened to the Resolve Panel. Next will be reset button for the 4th trackball, currently the 3 buttons above the 4th trackball is for Adjust, Mode and Cursor, so you still have to click on the GUI to reset it.
 
Peace Villow said:
You can do that now on the current version with resolve panel. You just need to activate Primary tab (the one with RGB bars) instead of LGG color wheel tab. Offset control on the 4th trackball is the best thing ever happened to the Resolve Panel. Next will be reset button for the 4th trackball, currently the 3 buttons above the 4th trackball is for Adjust, Mode and Cursor, so you still have to click on the GUI to reset it.
Click to expand...


Wow...! This is an awesome fact to know. When did it happen? I have tried to ask this very same question to BMD (forums, etc.) and the answer was that is was not available. Thanks Mr. Villow, thanks a lot...!
 
Luis Otero said:
Wow...! This is an awesome fact to know. When did it happen? I have tried to ask this very same question to BMD (forums, etc.) and the answer was that is was not available. Thanks Mr. Villow, thanks a lot...!
Click to expand...

I think it's available on v9 when they put the Log control. I know this accidently when I change the Log Color Wheel tab to Primaries tab, the 4th track ball still can adjust the offset control.
 
Oops, sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you where referring to the 4th wheel of the Element panels.
 
Hopefully it will be on the 4th trackball of element panel for version 10 ;)
 
I bought the Black magic big panel a few years ago and it paid for its self in less than a year. I don't understand why everyone is carrying on here. If you are any good as a colourist buy the big panel and have a point of difference. You can do exactly the same job without a panel but you will take 10 times longer to do it. Customers get confidence in a shop if they have the best gear and thats why i have RED and DaVinci.

I specifically flew to Vegas to buy a 4k monitoring system and to upgrade my Sony BVM series monitor. Unfortunately there was nothing for me to buy as they don't exist yet. So i will probably end up renting a Dolby PRM 4200 and buy a 4k version when they exist.

My point is that i always have the best gear available as it pays for itself.

I cant wait for V10 to be released as i spoke to one of the engineers at the black magic stand for nearly an hour, and to have multiple windows of the same shape in the same node is a game changer for me. And i was going to buy the "CUBE" DCP creation software that sells for $10k but after speaking to the Black Magic guys i can save money again by using their product.

Hopefully in the final release version of DaVinci 10 they have encoded DCP support otherwise there really isn't a point in making a DCP from Resolve.

On another note from what i learned about DCP and encoded DCP's is that it is a real problem to playback an encoded DCP on any box as you have to be authorised by the DCI / DCP board to play a DCP through an SDI card. This is to curb piracy and a whole another thread should be dedicated to this and also the ACES workflow from RED to DaVinci to encoded DCP.

I spent half of my time speaking to vendors at NAB about this and every answer was different. In a previous life i was a fully qualified broadcast engineer and most of the vendors i spoke to were full of shit.

Lets keep this thread as what it is suppose to be.... Talking about the V10 features.

But on my final note about this.... I was quite surprised how good the noise reduction and also the slow motion was on V10.. Very exciting. Only drawback is that V10 still wont support speed ramping.
 
Peace Villow said:
Hopefully it will be on the 4th trackball of element panel for version 10 ;)
Click to expand...


Based on Jake's report, it will. I trust his word, so I have my hopes up...! BTW, this is considered a V10 feature.

Peace, on a side note (knowing that this thread is dedicated to V10), do you have recommended values for "Low Range" and "High Range" for the log grading?

Thanks,
 
jake blackstone said:
Wow, this sure turned ugly fast:-)
I'm trying to thread carefully here , as Mike M and I have a history. So, I really hope to have an exchange of opinions without being personal.
I don't see it particularly problematic occasionally use Resolve without a panel. No biggie. But anyone using any type of color grading software on a professional level will not use it without. An efficent use of a panel is a landmark of a good colorist. No client will stand to watch a colorist grading their project with a mouse. So, I think we all can agree, that panel is a necessity, if color grading is one's profession. Does it have to be $30k or can $1200 do the job? I think Mike M already answered that question with his anecdote. He even admitted, that once he got used to it, it wasn't a big deal to use. So, if one can use a $1200 panel and be productive, why then use a $30k panel. I know I had pointed this out before, but it's one thing to work in a large facility and use their expensive panels and it's a different situation, when one has to reach into their own pocket for the $30k.
So, let me review.
1. You must use a panel to grade, if you're working as a colorist professionally.
2. It doesn't have to be an expensive type.
So, let's move onto the last point. Why does BM has to support third party hardware? Simple answer, see point number one. If BM wouldn't, then Resolve would be relegated to the hobbyists, occasional users and facilities with $30k to spend. Without inexpensive panels from Tangent and Avid there wouldn't be Resolve as it's stands today. BM wouldn't need to support all those hardware manufacturers, if there was an inexpensive alternative. How do I know? Look at Baselight and Baselight Editions support of Elements and MC Color. They don't have to support those panels, but they do, because they are smart. Baselight works with great Blackboard panels, but they realized a long time ago, that users may want cheaper alternatives. That's why for a long time Filmlight offered a support for JL Cooper. And when Filmlight does offer support on those panels, it's not done in a way, that completely defeats the purpose of using a panel to increase productivity. Using those panels on Baselight is a joy. The very same panels are cringeworthy on Resolve. But wait, there is more. FilmLight just introduced insanely great Slate- a much cheaper alternative to their own high end Blackboards. But somehow BM is unwilling to do the same. Every software manufacturer supports third party panels, because they all know, that that's what you must do, if you want to sell color grading software and to stay relevant and competitive. Slowly BM starts to realize this and they are slowly improving that support, because they have no choice, UNLESS they release an inexpensive alternative themselves. Then it's going to be a different story altogether.
Click to expand...

Sure. But how much is Baselight again? Or even Baselight Editions?
This is the point you are missing, or choosing to miss. Should BM raise prices to match Baselight? Then they may be able to open up like you want, because they would actually be making money in the software price itself.
 
Peace Villow said:
You can do that now on the current version with resolve panel. You just need to activate Primary tab (the one with RGB bars) instead of LGG color wheel tab. Offset control on the 4th trackball is the best thing ever happened to the Resolve Panel. Next will be reset button for the 4th trackball, currently the 3 buttons above the 4th trackball is for Adjust, Mode and Cursor, so you still have to click on the GUI to reset it.
Click to expand...
The problem with adding fourth wheel for offsets at LGG, is in V10 you will have to read which mode you're in. Presently in V9 LGG has three wheels and Log has four and it's easy to see which mode you're in. it will be much more difficult and time consuming trying to figure out the same thing in V10. Not a deal breaker, but another one of those annoying and unnesesarily mouse driven things, unless you're runningn$30k panel.
 
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