NAB13- Scarlet Upgrade Program

[Suresh Kara]

thanks, do you know if that was from red?

 

[sam karr]

I don't think it's the same as MX, as the pixels size is different. It's cropping a tiny bit more than MX i think.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

i went with dragon upgrade..and happy with it what if i want to go Epic Dragon after few months later??
also why Red still didnt put price tag on Red Scarlet Dragon i want to know how
much it worth

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I saw in another thread (can't remember where exactly) that Dragon 6K is 1.2 crop, 5K is 1.3, 4K 1.6 etc... same as MX sensor.

Its not the same, its 10% higher crop factor for equivalent resolutions or a 1.1x relative crop factor. So speaking stricly about horizontal fov, 6k is 1.2x, 5k 1.44x, 4k 1.8x, 3k 2.4x, 2k 3.6x, etc compared to a 36mm wide ff35 sensor.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Its not the same, its 10% higher crop factor for equivalent resolutions or a 1.1x relative crop factor. So speaking stricly about horizontal fov, 6k is 1.2x, 5k 1.44x, 4k 1.8x, 3k 2.4x, 2k 3.6x, etc compared to a 36mm wide ff35 sensor.

why dont you understand 5K epic-x and 5K epic dragon is gonna have same FOV
no matter what sensor size
check Phil Hollands Data sheets for more information about crop factor

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Kinda wondering what the new relationship between epic and scarlet will be since it came out at about 1/3 the price of epic but dragonized will be about 2/3 the price of epic dragon... they will sit quite close now it seems.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

why dont you understand 5K epic-x and 5K epic dragon is gonna have same FOV
no matter what sensor size
check Phil Hollands Data sheets for more information about crop factor

RED stated Dragon uses 5um pixels instead of mx's 5.4um pixels... its basic math from the given specs.

MX 5k
5120 x 0.0054 = 27.7mm
Dragon 5k
5120 x 0.005 = 25.6mm

To be more precise, dragon has a crop factor of 1.08x compared to MX at the same resolutions.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

I don't think it's the same as MX, as the pixels size is different. It's cropping a tiny bit more than MX i think.

Yes more. Fiield of view per pixel is smaller.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

RED stated Dragon uses 5um pixels instead of mx's 5.4um pixels... its basic math from the given specs.

MX 5k
5120 x 0.0054 = 27.7mm
Dragon 5k
5120 x 0.005 = 25.6mm

To be more precise, dragon has a crop factor of 1.08x compared to MX at the same resolutions.

I think the difference is actually more than that - but someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I think the difference is actually more than that - but someone correct me if I am wrong.

How would it be? The math is very simple, besides RED stating it uses 5.4um in MX and 5um in Dragon, you can verify based on specs:

according to RED.com:

Epic-MX
MAX IMAGE AREA
5120 (h) x 2700 (v)
LENS COVERAGE
27.7mm (h) x 14.6mm (v) x 31.4 mm (d)

Dragon
MAX IMAGE AREA
6144 (h) x 3160 (v)
LENS COVERAGE
30.7mm (h) x 15.8mm (v) x 34.5 mm (d)

SO
27.7mm/horizontal / 5120pix/horizontal = 0.00541mm/pix
30.7mm/horizontal / 6144pix/horizontal = 0.00500mm/pix

and 5.41um / 5.00um = 1.08x crop factor

 

[Suresh Kara]

so according to

http://www.red.com/store/products/scarlet-dragon-upgrade

the MAX IMAGE AREA: 5120 (h) x 2700 (v)

so does that mean it has the same FOV as the MX sensor?

the LENS COVERAGE: 25.6mm (h) x 13.5mm (v) x 28.9 mm (d) is different to the mx of 27.7mm (h) x 14.6mm (v) x 31.4 mm (d)

i'm very bad at maths

 

[sam karr]

so according to

http://www.red.com/store/products/scarlet-dragon-upgrade

the MAX IMAGE AREA: 5120 (h) x 2700 (v)

so does that mean it has the same FOV as the MX sensor?

the LENS COVERAGE: 25.6mm (h) x 13.5mm (v) x 28.9 mm (d) is different to the mx of 27.7mm (h) x 14.6mm (v) x 31.4 mm (d)

i'm very bad at maths

A bit smaller. it's something like 1.4x for the dragon vs 1.3x for the MX (pixel size has changed). Not a big difference. And it's almost exactly the size of S35.
Some people seem to be worried about that. But the Arri Alexa for example is 23,8 x 13,4mm, smaller than the Scarlet-D, and crop factor of 1.5x.
A 18mm lens will appear as a 23,4mm on the MX, and a 25,2mm on the Scarlet-D. Nothing to be worried about.

 

[Suresh Kara]

thanks sam

i'm still a little confused

i still think i will be shooting a lot of 4k on the scarlet dragon will the FOV be very different @ 4k? the current scarlet mx

thanks for this

 

[sam karr]

thanks sam

i'm still a little confused

i still think i will be shooting a lot of 4k on the scarlet dragon will the FOV be very different @ 4k?

thanks for this

At 4k it will be a bit different too, like 1,75x for the scarlet-D i think vs 1,6x previously. But there is a 4.5K mode now, it should be the same FOV as the scarlet-MX at 4k.
For the explanation, it's kinda simple. The pixel size was 5,4 microns, now it's 5. For a specific format, if you multiply the size of a pixel by the amount of horizontal pixels for example, it gives you the size of the sensor area used on that format. 5120 x 0,005=25,6mm (for dragon), and 27,7 for MX.
The FOV depends on the size of the sensor area. Horizontally, comparing to 35mm full frame area, it's 36mm/25,6mm=1,4x. Well I'm not sure 100% but it makes sense.

 

[Suresh Kara]

thanks SAM!!

 

[Les Dittert]

Are there any compression ratio ( redcode ) numbers yet for the Scarlet D modes ?

One think for sure: Red will be selling more Redmags to Scarlet D users, they aren't used to burning through storage with 5K@60 !

 

[sam karr]

Are there any compression ratio ( redcode ) numbers yet for the Scarlet D modes ?

One think for sure: Red will be selling more Redmags to Scarlet D users, they aren't used to burning through storage with 5K@60 !

We just know: 1-48 fps 5K FF at 5:1 compression
I guess that means that we have even better compression for all the rest.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Do we know yet about when the Scarlet -> Epic-MX upgrade will take place? I'm sitting here waiting to click "add to cart" and I'm falling farther and farther behind in line... Can we pleease get an update soon? Will it be in July when Dragon upgrades start going out or immediatelyish?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I saw a post somewhere (by Brent, I think) that suggested (without any exact dates) that Dragon ---> Epic trades would probably start sooner than Scarlet ---> Scarlet Dragon upgrades (which is slated for about July). Not official, not absolute, and , of course, could change any time. :huh:

 

[Dr. Sassi]

Scarlet to Epic X.

I would like to know that as well. I do not see a direct need to delay such a trade-in to July or even later, other than an overwhelming torrent of orders. Half of the process is certainly the delivery duration of a new Epic-X, and the other half the speed of the trade-in procedure.

My interest in this is more based on my idea to fine-tune the availability with my funds. ...and I guess my budget is slower than RED is delivering here. ;o) So I have to be careful.

Do we know yet about when the Scarlet -> Epic-MX upgrade will take place? I'm sitting here waiting to click "add to cart" and I'm falling farther and farther behind in line... Can we pleease get an update soon? Will it be in July when Dragon upgrades start going out or immediatelyish?