Scarlet owners and their reactions this week

[Peter Proniewicz-Brooks]

Has there been any dragon footage posted yet?

Think at some point it has been said by RED that the firmware and colour science aren't quite ready yet.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

Have you seen the slow motion on the Scarlet. It would have been smarter not to add it!

Have you? have you shot it? cause I strongly disagree, with the right post workflow I have made highly compressed 1k 90 fps footage come out wonderful, and so have others. It may not be perfect but it's there and it's useful, it's about knowing how and when to use it and what you can do in post to improve it.

It's one thing to say you don't like it and don't use it, but to say they should have not include it, give your head a shake.

 

[Samir Patel]

I believe someone on this forum actually shot Scarlet 1k slow motion for a liquor campaign and landed a very large job. So yeah 1k is enough if it is in the hands of the right user.

https://vimeo.com/55977068

 

[Sebastian Winkels]

The announcements are really interesting to say the least, but I find it frustrating that we don't have more specs on

- codecs & bit rates the proxy module actually records
- Scarlet D acquisition formats, frame rates and compression modes
- what the new sensor looks like (especially noise floor/low light performance)
- compatibility of new front fans with 15mm LW configurations (, including 3rd party gear)

These are my main concerns, being in doc work and hassling with TV producers, that cannot always guarantee a full R3D/4K post from the start.
Hope we get more information soon after the NAB rush!
Just feel unable to take any decisions today...

 

[BrandonChristensen]

My thoughts...

I was disappointed that the Scarlet was going to be excluded from the Dragon, putting an end of life on my not-even-one-year-old camera.

The news that I CAN get it, or I can spend the same amount to upgrade to an Epic was a pleasant surprise. Not that I'm in any rush, but if I want to, the option is there. Personally, I'll likely go for the Scarlet Dragon when I do upgrade. Having an Epic is great, but being able to shoot in 5K (which I'm assuming would translate to about 120fps in 4K) is awesome, and the new DR and, I'm presuming, better low-light makes it a stronger camera than the current Epic is. IMO.

I'm more disappointed in a lot of the accessories they announced. The Proxy module is not as good as some third-party alternatives for more money, forcing Mini-Mags is totally backwards thinking, the new short quick back is overpriced (considering you need to have the backpack on there, a $1250 item)...etc.

The pricing on all of the aks is really not in line with what you can buy the bodies for. It's bizarre.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

A much cheaper 4k full sensor upgrade option.

A much cheaper 4k full sensor upgrade option.

I said originally, when the expensive price was announced last year, they should scrap the upgrade and introduce a trade in on a new Scarlet Dragon. I suppose they plan to introduce a new Scarlet end of the year, hopefully not next NAB, and it is different from the present, and introducing a dragon version of the current would stuff that plan and the work put into it. Otherwise they could shoe horn in the present upgrade as the new Scarlet. They then sell the trade-ins cheap against BM or to rentals, but I understand they are pretty full.

An upgrade of the sensir should cost no more than $1k-2k. But the issue is, the present circuit cannot handle more than 4k frame rates. But can it do 4:2:2 4k? If so, here is the cheaper solution, upgrade just the sensor portion, set one option it to debayer the full sensor down to 4k 4:2:2 and compress and record that. That is how Red bayer is supposed to work, true 4k detail from a higher than 4k resokution. You loose Bayer unless you window to 4k or so, but you get cheap upgrade and full sensor window use, on one of the best sensors for $1k-2k and probably keep up with the previous quality of bayer compression. Who knows, maybe with a simpler change to inside circuit it could be induced to do 5k p24/25 Bayer, just useful.

The reality of the high prices would be they would have to wait till a new iteration/die shrink of the chips before they could revise the current upgrade design to a descent compressed frame rate at 6k

This is likely all the issues causing the problem here.


I still think my sensor only cheap upgrade to full window 4k 4:2:2 is a winner. What do people think?

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Pity my processor supplier hasn't finished the 32bit version of their array processor yet, I could make a external compressed 6k recorder that fitted in a thumbstick or so (plus drive of course). They have the highest processing to energy ratio of any processor on the planet, in uber small sized circuits, and they have not even been able to access small faster lower energy chip processes yet. They are designed to replace fgpa's with a more flexible low powered processing solution.


Warning about selling Scarlets for BMDs, sure it may depreciate in value, but why down grade, the BMD product has nowhere near the features and flexibility of the Scarlet, and the equipment you bought with it has all ready depreciated. A screen that you can tilt and shade is worth more than one you cannot properly.

 

[Peter Kalentzis]

Everything has been covered.

Bottom line: I own a Scarlet, I LOVE my Scarlet, and now I feel like an idiot.

And no... I am not mad at Red, just myself.

Back to trying to figure out why my Redmag isn't mounting... right after I figure out why my Scarlet sometimes boots up to a frozen screen... right after I figure out why sometimes my screen just turns black... right after I figure out why my video sometimes glitches.

 

[Henry Ceiro]

Official Scarlet-D specs from Jarred himself.

75fps 4K, 100fps 3K, and 150fps 2K. Those numbers may change around a bit as usual when we get closer to shipping.

 

[dio Zafi]

i've decided!! Yes I'm sticking with RED...well because ....one of the reasons is it's made here..in America...and my Parents came to this country with no money and they we're able to build a life here and help put me through college...so I vote Red...I also vote for Kodak which is made in America...sorry but I stil shoot on film sometimes...it's so beautiful..it takes my breath away..expensive okay unless you get short ends..but I can't help myself.

 

[Björn Benckert]

This is not right you guys should take it easy and think things over.

This is how I see it.

The BMC 4K does not kill the scarlet. As far as I know there is quite a few scarlet out there in the world, alive and kicking. And what is more important, at the moment there is not a single 4k BMC cameras out there, and we all know how long it took them to deliver the 2k cams. I'm pretty sure that anyone going for dragon will probably have it in their hands faster than they can get a 4k BMC. And to me the scarlet X beats the BMC's on several key features.
For one, Where is the BMC upgrade path? what about those that just got their 2k BMC's... it's not like they are able to trade it in for the 4k stuff, or?
Also, if find the r3d's to be superior to the cinema DNG files by far.
And if you get a BMC then you learn to handle a camera that at best max out at scarlet specs. But if you own a scarlet on the other hand you learn to operate and work around something much bigger, as you can then with confidence rent an epic dragon have higher framerates, greater DR more pixles, bigger sensor etc, and just go shoot with no further instructions. So basically owning is one thing knowing / having skills is so much more.
4k DNG files (even compressed) are not to play with. the setup you need to handle them will cost quite a bit more than what you need to toss r3d's around and a rocket is actually quite cheep in comparison. And I would not be shocked if the original rocket, brand new and/or second hand will fall in to a totally new price category as soon as people start to order the rocket X.
So if the original rocket is available for cheap then what would be the equivalent tool for BMC workflow?
Here in scandinavia, the red's are renting and I think that will increase with the bigger demand for 4k. And the film crew people we know will for sure not rent any fo the BMC's, as even if you can strap gear to it it's not really in any kind of eco system. The RED's on the other hand will have things like the meizler with motors and wireless video and other accessories that is top shelf stuff.
So even if the BMC looks like a great product for little money at the moment it's very posible that it will feel like something from the past when it actually comes out as things are changing quite quickly. So looking at the BMC's and the Scarlet I only see the scarlet as something that fits into the future, and more importantly it's here now.
I do not have a scarlet, But we do have an epic and when we are renting a second camera for B cam or BTS, which we do quite frequently, then our choice is clear, we then rent a scarlet, as it work the same and we can pipe the files trough the same systems as for our epic stuff.

So thats my 5 cents on the subject... trading your scarlet for a BMC is maybe a few coins saved for the short term, but thats about it.

 

[Steffen Baermann]

I own a scarlet too and it I am not to happy with it, as I had technical issues on set with monitors, though I was always able to shoot with it. Even with the price-point I just ordered the Dragon upgrade. So far I was unhappy with the low-light sensitivity of the camera and hope that the upgrade will improve this dramatically.

At the end there is a lot of discussion fwd and backwards. I hope RED knows, that they can only make money on us longterm.

I also do not believe in the Ultra HD Hype etc. So 5K is reasonable for me. Let's see what the 9500 USD investment will bring. And this will decide, where the next investment will go

 

[Peter Kalentzis]

For one, Where is the BMC upgrade path?

Well... if it's at the cost of 9,500 I would not want it anyway. I would rather buy a NEW camera for another 4k and still have my old one.

what about those that just got their 2k BMC'sF

At that price, I would be annoyed but not as annoyed as I am today being a Scarlet owner.

owning is one thing knowing / having skills is so much more.

Is there a way to please be educated UNDER 10K?! Will that be the standard for any kind of upgrade? Oh wait... I forgot... I should be grateful for this incredible new software upgrade. I now have... oh... nope... I don't.

So looking at the BMC's and the Scarlet I only see the scarlet as something that fits into the future, and more importantly it's here now.

I see it that way as well... unfortunately the way we are moving forward with new tech, moving forward with Red = spending a small fortune. Don't get me wrong, I love my Scarlet... and I can too justify (and have) on why it is the best around. My gripe is with Red making everybody outside of Hollywood and production house's feel like an afterthought.

BTW- Björn, I am not attacking you. Please don't take it as such. I am just extremely aggravated. In my opinion, the ONLY reason the BMC even exist's is because Red only cares about the big boys. They could have invented it years ago, but instead we end up with expensive left-overs.

 

[Zharmane Washington]

6G-SDI sounds cool, but do you think it makes a bit of difference to 90% of the people buying the camera?

It's an aggressive move, but hardly a death blow to anyone. Canon will likely be hardest hit by the 2 new BMCCs.

The Resolve dongle normally goes for around $500 to $600 and if you sell it you can only use Resolve Lite with your 4k footage. Selling your dongle made more sense when the BMCC was a 2.5k camera.

The cheaper media is nice, but I would be concerned about how reliable off the shelf SSDs end up being.

I would rather have a RED's LCD than the onboard monitor that comes with the BMCC. At least you can tilt and reposition it...

You don't need a $3900 512gb Red Mag to use a Scarlet. That's absurd.

You don't need a Rocket either. I don't have one.

There are a lot of accessories you will need to actually be able to use your camera in a production environment. Cage, Battery Plate, Batteries, etc. Even then it's still going to get beat up on set. RED cameras are built like tanks. This BMCC is built like a Fisher Price toy.

I'm really curious how the footage is going to look from this new camera. I get the impression they skimped on the sensor to get the price down. We shall see.

All that said...

I like what Black Magic is doing. When I was a kid I started making films with a VHS camera and edited with 2 VCRs connected together. I couldn't have even dreamed about having access to anywhere near the level of gear that's available now at a cheap price. It's a great time to be a filmmaker. There were huge barriers to entry for someone trying to get in the business. Those barriers are coming down one-by-one and soon we'll be left with one... Talent. That excites me.

LOL Really Dont knock em they doing something BIG..

 

[Zharmane Washington]

This is not right you guys should take it easy and think things over.

This is how I see it.

The BMC 4K does not kill the scarlet. As far as I know there is quite a few scarlet out there in the world, alive and kicking. And what is more important, at the moment there is not a single 4k BMC cameras out there, and we all know how long it took them to deliver the 2k cams. I'm pretty sure that anyone going for dragon will probably have it in their hands faster than they can get a 4k BMC. And to me the scarlet X beats the BMC's on several key features.
For one, Where is the BMC upgrade path? what about those that just got their 2k BMC's... it's not like they are able to trade it in for the 4k stuff, or?
Also, if find the r3d's to be superior to the cinema DNG files by far.
And if you get a BMC then you learn to handle a camera that at best max out at scarlet specs. But if you own a scarlet on the other hand you learn to operate and work around something much bigger, as you can then with confidence rent an epic dragon have higher framerates, greater DR more pixles, bigger sensor etc, and just go shoot with no further instructions. So basically owning is one thing knowing / having skills is so much more.
4k DNG files (even compressed) are not to play with. the setup you need to handle them will cost quite a bit more than what you need to toss r3d's around and a rocket is actually quite cheep in comparison. And I would not be shocked if the original rocket, brand new and/or second hand will fall in to a totally new price category as soon as people start to order the rocket X.
So if the original rocket is available for cheap then what would be the equivalent tool for BMC workflow?
Here in scandinavia, the red's are renting and I think that will increase with the bigger demand for 4k. And the film crew people we know will for sure not rent any fo the BMC's, as even if you can strap gear to it it's not really in any kind of eco system. The RED's on the other hand will have things like the meizler with motors and wireless video and other accessories that is top shelf stuff.
So even if the BMC looks like a great product for little money at the moment it's very posible that it will feel like something from the past when it actually comes out as things are changing quite quickly. So looking at the BMC's and the Scarlet I only see the scarlet as something that fits into the future, and more importantly it's here now.
I do not have a scarlet, But we do have an epic and when we are renting a second camera for B cam or BTS, which we do quite frequently, then our choice is clear, we then rent a scarlet, as it work the same and we can pipe the files trough the same systems as for our epic stuff.

So thats my 5 cents on the subject... trading your scarlet for a BMC is maybe a few coins saved for the short term, but thats about it.

in a lot of ways it kill it. cost is the biggest factor. that enough to make a lot of take a second look and even try it. 4k it what a lot people not saying they need it. but now its there so hey scarlet will take a big blow.

 

[Zharmane Washington]

Well... if it's at the cost of 9,500 I would not want it anyway. I would rather buy a NEW camera for another 4k and still have my old one.



At that price, I would be annoyed but not as annoyed as I am today being a Scarlet owner.



Is there a way to please be educated UNDER 10K?! Will that be the standard for any kind of upgrade? Oh wait... I forgot... I should be grateful for this incredible new software upgrade. I now have... oh... nope... I don't.



I see it that way as well... unfortunately the way we are moving forward with new tech, moving forward with Red = spending a small fortune. Don't get me wrong, I love my Scarlet... and I can too justify (and have) on why it is the best around. My gripe is with Red making everybody outside of Hollywood and production house's feel like an afterthought.

BTW- Björn, I am not attacking you. Please don't take it as such. I am just extremely aggravated. In my opinion, the ONLY reason the BMC even exist's is because Red only cares about the big boys. They could have invented it years ago, but instead we end up with expensive left-overs.

i was just looking to buy a scarlet and now I like WTF i can go over there and get something much closer for a fraction minus all they other stuff and buy a good SSD for a few bucks and shoot raw not REd raw but hey its raw.

RED make a big move here or lose your base

 

[BrandonChristensen]

Official Scarlet-D specs from Jarred himself.

Sweet.

I'm sold.