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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Enter the Dragon

Will Keir said:
Falkor!

Is it true that the Dragon Sensor will have it's own IR filtering? What about in camera NDs?
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Yes it is Will, this is why I have said the importance of using IRND in current Sensor, of which the Schneider's Platinum series are the best, which I'll sale to any one not upgrading once our Dragons come home... ;)
 
Just an wild idea, which i'm not betting on, hehe. Did RED ever mention there will be only one EPIC-model with Dragon?

There could be multiple versions of EPICs. ;) Maybe we will see the return of the EPIC-S35-concept (as many Scarlet-Users requested) as second option and successor to Scarlet-X.
 
Hello Ketch! Which IRND would you recommend for a SCARLET that comes with a few stops ring mount already to be able to gun n shoot without changing ND's? Thanks
 
hi guys! well.. it's over a month since you sent us the first/last pic the Dragon produced.. and I think everyone is expecting something more by now.. what say you RED? Yay or nay for more Dragon images being released this week?? :yesnod:
 
Agreed, t's still so much time until NAB starts, it would be great to have a few more new bits to shorten the wait. ;)
 
should I spend $1000 + on filters for my matte box or just upgrade to Dragon?? Will I need them after the upgrade? Just balancing the cost...
 
Graham Spencer-Scott said:
should I spend $1000 + on filters for my matte box or just upgrade to Dragon?? Will I need them after the upgrade? Just balancing the cost...
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That's a good consideration. Personally, I wouldn't plan on having a Dragon in-hand for quite a while more. So with that in mind, I'd get the filters. You should still be able to recoup something from those filters after-the-fact and the time waiting for Dragon could be very well used.
 
Ketch, the Schneider IRND match well with the Alexia, not the Epic. For the Epic, Formatt is the most neutral according to my colleagues. Both Phil Holland and Evin Grant swear by them.

Schneider Platinum IRs give a brownish/purple stain which can be very difficult to CC out. Especially with skin tones.

Here's the RU thread on the subject.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?94077-Platinum-IRNDs-on-Epic-BAD

Abelcine did a nice video on the subject, make your own conclusions.
http://blog.abelcine.com/index.php?s=irnd&sa.x=0&sa.y=0


KETCH ROSSi said:
Yes it is Will, this is why I have said the importance of using IRND in current Sensor, of which the Schneider's Platinum series are the best, which I'll sale to any one not upgrading once our Dragons come home... ;)
Click to expand...
 
Formatt ND's here too. They seem to work best on the EPIC over anything else I've tried. ...I suppose I've been recommending Formatt IRND's on RED for a few years now. Pancro work pretty well too. They're not as readily available (at least haven't been for me) and I don't care for the construction where their metallic coating is right on the glass surface.

Dragon is said to have improved IR filtration... We'll see what that means. Although, I think every camera needs a good IR filter in the kit. I see plenty of IR anomalies on other cameras, they're just not as noticeable in the form of color casting the way it happens on current RED cameras. Well, not true, I've had similar issues on others. FWIW, the BMCC suffers from noticeable IR pollution as well and the same "black sun" overload we saw on the original M sensor -- something that many CMOS sensors actually suffer from.
 
Will Keir said:
Ketch, the Schneider IRND match well with the Alexia, not the Epic. For the Epic, Formatt is the most neutral according to my colleagues. Both Phil Holland and Evin Grant swear by them.

Schneider Platinum IRs give a brownish/purple stain which can be very difficult to CC out. Especially with skin tones.

Here's the RU thread on the subject.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?94077-Platinum-IRNDs-on-Epic-BAD

Abelcine did a nice video on the subject, make your own conclusions.
http://blog.abelcine.com/index.php?s=irnd&sa.x=0&sa.y=0
Click to expand...


Have not had this issue, I do have Format as well, since the R1 days... ;)

But Schneider is better glass, not sure how and why they are having those issues with them, and I also always use a Polarizer too.

Also I only use Daylight 5600k light fixtures and never Tungsten, and since the tests shown were done with Tungstens, not sure if that had something to do with it.

I guess I could have taken time to do a side by side test, but I really am not that kind of gear tester... ;)

I test each piece of gear individually and analyze the results to the best of my likings, and make a decision accordingly as I have found out even with lenses too, one does one thing while the other does an other, for this I analyze everything individually.

What I absolutely make no use of is the Hot Mirror, while I see some still do, but the color pollution that gets eliminated via the use of IRND's in my case Schneider make me pretty happy, while I must say that in some cases I actually look to create a color pollution in certain ways as to give a particular effect which is harder and time consuming to do in post.
 
Alain M said:
Hello Ketch! Which IRND would you recommend for a SCARLET that comes with a few stops ring mount already to be able to gun n shoot without changing ND's? Thanks
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Hi Alain,

because of the Purple/Brown color pollution that has been brought up here, which I am not experiencing, not sure if it has to do with the fact that I always use a Polarizer as well, and or by the order in which I stuck my filters, it seems that Format Filters are more safe on Epic/Scarlet, and not sure of they are talking just about the IRND's or all ND's, but I am sure its only about the IRND's they are talking about.

IMO Schneider makes better glass, and they do build excellent lenses as well, they are more advanced and have better machine to polish their glass, but again because of this color pollution issue, I will now have to do a Filter test with my set up with both filters to see what is the difference produced by a Schneider IRND and a Format one.
 
What a read this thread now, much more like THE BIBLE with the occasional Judas and doubting Thomas thrown in for good measure! With all these digressions, I think Red would be better off posting Dragon morsels in the DRAGON OFF TOPIC I started if only to get away from all this “POSTAGE!”



But while we’re all waiting (like anxious children!) I should probably relate the story of “Saint Jarred of the Mount” or how I came to privately consider Jarred Land as the 11th Apostle! Picture yourself by a warm fireplace with a Christmas tree, children, presents, dogs and cats if you will…



I had attempted to order a Scarlet on the night of the big announcement but was frozen out by the RED server. Some four days later mind you, upon taking (Saint) Jarred’s advice to save $1K and opt into the Scarlet package with TiPL mount as quickly as possible, I discovered (very soon afterwards!) that I had in fact, landed the 0123 package! I had become Scarlet 123!


Please take your time on announcements and Dragon info, especially since these genius posts barely recognize the implications of the processing and container issues! I’m still not sure whether I could actually go through with a trade in or if you’ll have to pry Scarlet 0123 from my cold dead hands!

I can only wonder who became Epic 0123 or if they’ll even admit it… And of course, one of you lucky guys is going to become Dragon 0123! :)
 
As a RED Scarlet owner, I certainly hope the company takes into account (when determining the upgrade price), that many Scarlet owners like myself, only bought into RED because it was clearly marketed as a body that would be upgradeable. "That you're not buying a camera, you're buying into a company", I think I read from management. I've seen management post last month that they would offer a trade in program, stating "what other camera company would do the same." It's not a great argument, since other camera companies didn't commit that their cameras would be upgradeable.

If BMW has two electric car models- one for 70k and also a 30k model. And if BMW committed that both cars would benefit from future upgradeable batteries, but than said 4 mnths later, that only the 70k car would be offered the new upgradeable batteries (but you could turn in your 30k model, pony up 55k, and you'll have an upgradeable car)... well you see where I'm going with this. People would be furious.

That being said, it's great that RED sees that some concessions should be offered. To that regard:

1) is there a possibility that Scarlet users could trade up to the current 5k epic sensor? What's going to happen with all those 5k epic sensors floating around- throw them away? Im sure the factory could still produce the 5K sensor. That seems like a perfect way to upgrade the Scarlet.

2) considering how much more expensive the new model will be, Scarlet users should have at least a year to trade into the Epic. And if Epic prices drop, the conversion price should go down as well. New converts would've paid more, but got the benefit of having the newest, best camera.

3) the trade in price should be less then the difference between the Scarlet value - the new Epic Dragon. Again it's not our fault that RED made a commitment to Scarlet owners they couldn't keep. Understandable if after 2 or 3 upgrades, if RED came out and said the Scarlet couldn't be upgradeable anymore, and offered a trade in. But Scarlet wasn't even inline to get one upgrade. A camera that was sold under the premise that owners would have the body for the next decade, with the option to continually upgrade the internals. Remember, we waited almost 2 yrs to get this super cool, upgradeable camera. To learn that after 2 yrs of waiting, the result was a camera that couldn't even get upgraded once-- that's a little disappointing. Telling me I can drop 20k and get an Epic w the upgraded sensor we thought was 6k, is nice for some, but to others it's meaningless.

Anyway, hope that doesn't sound like whining... I want to be with RED for the next 20 years.
 
steve duncan said:
1) is there a possibility that Scarlet users could trade up to the current 5k epic sensor? What's going to happen with all those 5k epic sensors floating around- throw them away? Im sure the factory could still produce the 5K sensor. That seems like a perfect way to upgrade the Scarlet.
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That's already the case. ;)
Scarlet Sensor = Epic Sensor. It's the electronics behind the sensor that are less powerful on Scarlet, so you just can't use the sensor to its full potential...
 
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