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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Will the new BlackMagic Camera affect 4K sales.

Cinema DNG is Adobe's open standard RAW DNG archival file format as developed for still cameras with tags to define multi-frame clip sequences. It is an uncompressed unencoded raw sensor data format supporting both single chip color filter array sensors and 3 chip sensor arrays. A camera has to write the data for each pixel in CIE color space with a DNG file format wrapper. Supports raw data from 8 to 32 bits per pixel at any resolution. It records full data for each frame as an uncompressed still frame. DNG stands for digital negative.

Currently 4 movie cameras have adopted the standard: Ikonskop DII, BMC, Digital Bolex, and AATON Penelope (S35 4k). Kinefinity may be using it too.
 
David Rasberry said:
It records full data for each frame as an uncompressed still frame.
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Thanks, David.

So it appears that 1 second of footage shot at 24fps in CinemaDNG will turn out as 24 separate DNG files on your memory card/SSD.

Hmm...not the most convenient way to manage data.
 
Demetri Zuev said:
Thanks, David.

So it appears that 1 second of footage shot at 24fps in CinemaDNG will turn out as 24 separate DNG files on your memory card/SSD.

Hmm...not the most convenient way to manage data.
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Yep. But each clip is defined as a separate file of still frames. Roughly 85MB/sec of data at 12 bit 2k 16:9 uncompressed. Redcode has some serious advantages if you want to work in high resolution raw data with more reasonable file sizes. Nobody else has anything like it.
 
I was under the impression that you could select between a mxf container and a folder of DNG files. Also the Digital Bolex uses their own software, presumably to process their CinemaDNG files. Not sure of the data rates or processing, which is kind of why I prefer the open format of CinemaDNG.

One thing I like about the DB, is 4:3 is perfect for old 2x anamorphic lenses (Lomos). Should prove to be a great way to maximize the sensor/resolution. I was hoping BMDCC would do the same (since their sensor is also 4:3 in shape and even larger than the DB's.)
 
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The Digital Bolex uses cinema DNG, TIFF, JPEG frame sequences. There are provisions in the DNG standard for TIFF, MXF, and JPEG file wrappers as well as DNG, but the video is still raw CIE pixel data.
There is nothing proprietary about the DBolex. All of its hardware except the body and lens mounts are off the shelf components and it records open standard formats that can be processed with standard off the shelf photo, NLE, and FX software. Perfect fit for Adobe CS6.
They will be providing their own custom debayer software, but the footage can be debayered in Lightroom, Photoshop, Aperture
 
Mike P. said:
I was under the impression that you could select between a mxf container and a folder of DNG files. Also the Digital Bolex uses a proprietary format, not CinemaDNG. Not sure of the data rates or processing, which is kind of why I prefer the open format of CinemaDNG.

One thing I like about the DB, is 4:3 is perfect for old 2x anamorphic lenses (Lomos). Should prove to be a great way to maximize the sensor/resolution. I was hoping BMDCC would do the same (since their sensor is also 4:3 in shape and even larger than the DB's.)
Click to expand...


http://www.digitalbolex.com/products/

Adobe Cinema DNG (RAW), TIFF, JPEG image sequences, at all resolutions
 
David Rasberry said:
The Digital Bolex uses cinema DNG. There are provisions in the DNG standard for TIFF, MXF, and JPEG file wrappers as well as DNG, but the video is still raw CIE pixel data.
Click to expand...

Touche... I misinterpreted a NAB interview, they meant proprietary processing software akin to RCX but for their footage.
 
16mm film cameras were a huge market not just for top end amateurs, low budget pictures and TV but documentary and wildlife single shooters as well for good reason.
This was not just because of price but also the format, where the increased depth of field was an advantage in having a greater amount of usable material without necessarily a top focus puller.
The larger sensor Indie world is riddled with soft shots where the assistant's ability to follow the subject has been sacrificed to the search for bokeh.
Cinema has not always gone for shallow depth of field , Citizen Kane still looks good!
Being someone who has always worked with different rental cameras most suited to each job I personally was looking forward to buying a 2/3 inch Scarlet fixed lens at a great price for my own projects where I could shoot alone or with perhaps less experienced assistants. This was not to be but it looks like the Blackmagic camera might now fit the bill.
I suspect I am not alone and Jim may well have missed a trick in this arena.
After all we are not always shooting with 3D Epic rigs
 
Peter Versey said:
16mm film cameras were a huge market not just for top end amateurs, low budget pictures and TV but documentary and wildlife single shooters as well for good reason.
This was not just because of price but also the format, where the increased depth of field was an advantage in having a greater amount of usable material without necessarily a top focus puller.
The larger sensor Indie world is riddled with soft shots where the assistant's ability to follow the subject has been sacrificed to the search for bokeh.
Cinema has not always gone for shallow depth of field , Citizen Kane still looks good!
Being someone who has always worked with different rental cameras most suited to each job I personally was looking forward to buying a 2/3 inch Scarlet fixed lens at a great price for my own projects where I could shoot alone or with perhaps less experienced assistants. This was not to be but it looks like the Blackmagic camera might now fit the bill.
I suspect I am not alone and Jim may well have missed a trick in this arena.
Click to expand...

I am very much with you on the 16mm sized formats. Still my personal favorite for solo shooting and general purpose production. You might want to consider the Digital Bolex to. It is a more minimalist approach, only shooting raw, tiff and jpeg frame sequences at least to begin with. But it has a much better ergonomic form factor IMO and some nifty features of its own. It is a true 16mm/S16mm format for one. S16mm glass will cover the 2k frame and 16mm lenses will cover the 1080p frame. Kodak CCD global shutter sensor, so no rolling shutter issues. Interchangeable lens mounts, including a classic 3 lens C-mount turret being developed for it. They are taking more of a modular approach, with add on modules for color HDSDI out coming later.
 
The digital Bolex looks ill! I don't own a scarlet or an epic( I would love too!) but the images that the bolex is putting out look very tasty for the price and its RAW.
 
David Rasberry said:
Based on Digital Bolex raising their full Kickstarter funding in only 48 hours I would say there is plenty of market interest in a modest cost 16mm raw format camera. However S16 lenses won't cover the BMC format, it is too big. More like 4/3 format or APS-c/S35 lenses needed to cover the BMC, so it loses the compact optics advantages of a true 16mm format, especially when it comes to lightweight, fast, wide range zoom lenses.
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People are using s16mm lens on 4/3rds, it depends on the lens to how good it is on 4/3rds, but some nice super fast speciality lens are being produced third party too (I'm over are gh3,.. I mean www.43rumors.com ;) . Problems are vinegarreting, fade to edge etc. As I said previously, elsewhere, with enough bit depth, this should be able to e fixed in post (if anybody knows of software that does this, please let me know).
 
nigelsmith said:
Isn't that an Oxymoron like "fresh frozen" or "military intelligence"?
A true shoot out of the box ready camera has a lens attached and recording media included!
Click to expand...

Or like my Kodak Box Brownie, truly out of the box :-)
 
Hey, when I clucked in my post link to check it, I got this:

api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=3fc03d377330259546ed7d0abb712b4f&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reduser.net%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3F78077-Will-the-new-BlackMagic-Camera-affect-4K-sales%26p%3D1009782%26posted%3D1%23post1009782&v=1&libid=1337322566303&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.43rdsrumors.com%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reduser.net%2Fforum%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D1008666&title=Will%20the%20new%20BlackMagic%20Camera%20affect%204K%20sales.%20-%20Page%2015&txt=www.43rdsrumors.com&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13373227482464

Some sort of spyware, it gives not valid API function etc when I shorten it. Is this some new way to access API functions to run programs from the address line?

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/api-viglink-t619.html

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-why-does-it-stop-me-accessing-external-links

http://support.viglink.com/entries/20646001-api-documentation
 
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Wayne Morellini said:
People are using s16mm lens on 4/3rds, it depends on the lens to how good it is on 4/3rds, but some nice super fast speciality lens are being produced third party too (I'm over are gh3,.. I mean www.43rumors.com ;) . Problems are vinegarreting, fade to edge etc. As I said previously, elsewhere, with enough bit depth, this should be able to e fixed in post (if anybody knows of software that does this, please let me know).
Click to expand...

Adobe Lightroom if you are working in RAW, JPEG or TIFF frame sequences. You can profile lenses for shading, CA, and geometric distortion. Won't help with long GOP video codecs though.
 
David Rasberry said:
Adobe Lightroom if you are working in RAW, JPEG or TIFF frame sequences. You can profile lenses for shading, CA, and geometric distortion. Won't help with long GOP video codecs though.
Click to expand...

Thanks David, good to know that there is some software companies that can keep up with me. Does it do this on video streams rather than single frames?
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Thanks David, good to know that there is some software companies that can keep up with me. Does it do this on video streams rather than single frames?
Click to expand...

It is a single frame process, you can batch process frame sequences, I think they added the ability to read cinema DNG clip file meta data tags in the latest version for batch processing. It works with TIFF frame sequences too.
They have added some video stream support in the latest version too for color correction, but I don't think many of the more sophisticated features will work with video codecs that don't record full resolution individual frames.
 
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