Help choosing motherboard for Resolve system PC?

[Paul J Steinberg]

Wow, does my head hurt looking at motherboards.

Spoke with Blackmagic tech support and cards that would be required to work with 4K/5K R3D's in HD resolution would be:
Quadro 4000 - Rendering
Quadro 600 - GUI
Red Rocket - Debayering
Decklink Extreme 3D - I/O


I'd like to go with the new Sandybridge-E processor/MB but Blackmagic say thats both of the Nvidia GPU's HAVE to be on x16 slots, then the RR would need a x8 slot. Blackmagic list the P9X79 Pro (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_2011/P9X79_PRO/#specifications) but that board has as shared X16 lane that would become 2x x8 slots when the 2nd Nvidia card was installed with the RR.

The closest I've found is the Maximus IV Extreme Z (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/Maximus_IV_ExtremeZ/#specifications) but it is the previous Sandybridge chipset.


BM made it sound like the absolute most important thing in the whole wide world is that both Nvidia cards stay in x16 slots so my question is, would I expect to see a significant performance hit using the Maxiumus board/4-core CPU vs the newer Sandybridge-E P9X79 board/6-core CPU?

Does anyone know of a X79 motherboard with at least two x16 PCIe slots and two x8 slots?

Man, my head hurts just typing that.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm at the absolute end of my nerd-rope.

 

[Rohit Gupta]

On the P9X79, you have 2 x16 slots - use them for a Q600 and a fast CUDA card. For a choice of certified CUDA cards, please refer to the Windows configuration guide on the BMD website.

There is a x8 slot in which you can use the Red Rocket. The Red Rocket is anyway a x8 card so you don't lose any performance.

You can get a USB 3.0 based Decklink card for monitoring - models supported are listed in our configuration guide too.

Do not use the 3rd x16 card as that will cause bandwidth sharing with the CUDA card.

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

Thanks for the quick reply Rohit but I need HDSDI output for monitoring and I don't see any USB3 cards with HDSDI outputs. Also, this system will be portable so the Extreme 3D card with it's HDSDI ouputs right on the back of the card is much neater than a fantail connector.

 

[Rohit Gupta]

Well the single-processor motherboards have limitations in terms of PCI-E lanes. I would recommend going for the dual-Xeon Supermicro based configuration if you need all the PCI-E slots. It's also detailed in the Resolve for Windows configuration guide including slot placements.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If you're willing to consider a dual-processor Xeon solution, I would wait a bit if you can. The current i55xx chipset offerings are 3 years old and the update is literally due in the next several weeks.

For single-processor SandyBridge LGA2011 motherboards, take a look at the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme. All around awesome motherboard. A bit pricey, but it pretty much has everything on it and it performs great (I'm running one in my latest PC and running Resolve with it).

As for the video cards, the suggestion of the lowly Quadro 600 combined with the Quadro 4000 is good for Resolve, but not much else. What do you intend to run with the system in addition to Resolve? I would suggest running a GTX580 as your primary GPU card if you plan to run Premiere or other GPU (CUDA) accelerated apps. Then for Resolve, for a secondary GPU, another GTX580 will outperform the Quadro 4000 and will cost less. The drawback is the GTX580 consumes two slot spaces and two aux PCIe power connectors. It's a monster. The Quadro 4000 is pricey and plenty powerful in most regards and takes up a single slot space.

Anyway, the Quadro 600 isn't going to cut it as your primary GPU if you intend to run other accelerated apps and you will find yourself swapping display connectors over to the Quadro and back if you want to accelerate other things.

 

[Brian Iannone]

+1 on ASUS' Rampage IV Extreme and Maximus IV Extreme-Z. They work well. Very well...

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Remember that X79 motherboards have PCIe 3.0 slots, so that is bandwidth equivalent to 80 PCIe 2.0 slots off a single CPU. Yes, as of now the only PCIe 3.0 cards are HD 7970 and HD 7950 but every new graphics card released from here on will be PCIe 3.0. What that means is a 8x slot will get you 16x bandwidth. Might also want to consider Rampage IV Extreme or MSI's Big Bang Xpower II. Today's 6C dual Xeons are not a solution - the PCIe controller is in the chipset, which offers a limited 36 native lanes irrespective of how many CPUs you add. However, Sandy Bridge-EP is incoming in 3 weeks' time as Jeff points out, and it integrates the PCIe controller on the CPU die. So a dual Xeon E5 system will get you 80 PCIe 3.0 lanes (or similar bandwidth as 160 PCIe 2 lanes), quad socket will get you 160. It is the perfect solution for post production although the 8-core CPUs have their appropriate premium over Core i7 6-cores. A month after that, Nvidia will release their first PCIe 3.0 cards. And of course ditch the Quadro 4000 and go for a GTX 580 3 GB which is three times as fast. Are AMD 7900s OK for GUI? Perhaps you can considering putting a 7000 PCIe 3.0 AMD GPU into the x8 PCIe 3.0 slot. Of course, the 7900s are faster and more efficient than GTX 580s for non-CUDA stuff as a bonus.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

In regards to the ATI GPUs. Resolve does support OpenCL as an alternative to CUDA. However, it's not as fully optimized or developed, some functions are not yet supported -- AFAIK, the noise reduction node being one example of that.

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Yes, it could be OK for the GUI - the CUDA processing can continue on the x16 GTX 580 slot. There's a $150 HD 7770 due next week, that could be a good choice for GUI GPU to go into the X8 slot. Or HD 7950 3GB at $449 which is faster than GTX 580 at everything that is non-CUDA. Once again, HD 7000 are PCIe 3.0 which offers PCIe 2.0 x16 bandwidth over a x8 slot so there's no bandwidth compromised here. And it does leave 8 extra PCIe lanes. So the PCIe 2.0 cards can line up this way - x16 CUDA GPU, x8 Rocket, x8 Decklink.

As a side note, if you are working at HD resolution you don't need a Rocket at all. A Sandy Bridge-E CPU alone will get you 1/2 res real-time debayer, which is already >HD.

 

[Rohit Gupta]

In regards to the ATI GPUs. Resolve does support OpenCL as an alternative to CUDA. However, it's not as fully optimized or developed, some functions are not yet supported -- AFAIK, the noise reduction node being one example of that.

OpenCL is Mac only - on ATI cards

 

[Petri Teittinen]

For single-processor SandyBridge LGA2011 motherboards, take a look at the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme.

I've been building PCs since 1988 and Rampage IV Extreme did something I had never seen before: during the first 2 weeks of use it gradually broke down, becoming more and more unstable. I have now initiated an RMA process with the dealer and hoping to get a better one.

 

[Fabian Benninghoven]

If you're willing to consider a dual-processor Xeon solution, I would wait a bit if you can. The current i55xx chipset offerings are 3 years old and the update is literally due in the next several weeks.

For single-processor SandyBridge LGA2011 motherboards, take a look at the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme. All around awesome motherboard. A bit pricey, but it pretty much has everything on it and it performs great (I'm running one in my latest PC and running Resolve with it).

As for the video cards, the suggestion of the lowly Quadro 600 combined with the Quadro 4000 is good for Resolve, but not much else. What do you intend to run with the system in addition to Resolve? I would suggest running a GTX580 as your primary GPU card if you plan to run Premiere or other GPU (CUDA) accelerated apps. Then for Resolve, for a secondary GPU, another GTX580 will outperform the Quadro 4000 and will cost less. The drawback is the GTX580 consumes two slot spaces and two aux PCIe power connectors. It's a monster. The Quadro 4000 is pricey and plenty powerful in most regards and takes up a single slot space.

Anyway, the Quadro 600 isn't going to cut it as your primary GPU if you intend to run other accelerated apps and you will find yourself swapping display connectors over to the Quadro and back if you want to accelerate other things.

If you want to have more PCI slots you can use, just upgrade to 590GTX dual GPU. And use another Nvidia card as GUi like the user "Luigi" does. I have the same problem - i want to build up a socket 2011 windows Pc. But with 2x I7 cpu. After the computer expo "cebit" there will be some more motherboards available i guess.

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

Wow, some great insight here. Thanks a ton!

Great point on the Q600 card for the GUI Jeff. That never occurred to me. What is making this more difficult is that I'm trying to build this system into a portable case with a 700W power supply without turning it into an EZ Bake oven or killing the power supply....and of course I want it to do EVERYTHING on set.

As Stephen Wright would say "you can't have everything....where would you put it."

GTX 580 looks like a great card but the size, power and heat might be prohibitive for the smaller case.

Question about PCI3 slots: Do they require a PCI3 card to utilize their bandwidth/speed? Would two x16 PCI2 cards get the bandwidth they need on two shared x16 slots (effectively only getting x8)?

Dual Xeons may be the direction I should explore since they are eating less power I believe.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OpenCL is Mac only - on ATI cards

Ah, didn't know that... Thanks.

I've been building PCs since 1988 and Rampage IV Extreme did something I had never seen before: during the first 2 weeks of use it gradually broke down, becoming more and more unstable. I have now initiated an RMA process with the dealer and hoping to get a better one.

I've built so many PCs over the years, I doubt I could quantify it... I've seen lots of components break down over time. It happens. So far my Rampage IV board is good, but I guess we'll see how long it lasts. While it runs great for me (for now), I'm seeing a lot of reports of DOA units and degrading performance when overclocked. I'm seeing similar reports with other X79 boards as well. I'm wondering if some of these manufacturers were a little quick to market this time around.

If you are undergoing the RMA process with ASUS, I wish you the best of luck. Their support is pretty much crap and they're usually pretty slow at getting replacements out and refunds issued if you pay ahead on the swap. I nearly always try to work through the vendor rather than dealing direct with ASUS (or most other manufacturers). But most of your discount or online vendors don't want to deal with it and shove you off to manufacturer support. Ugh...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Wow, some great insight here. Thanks a ton!

Great point on the Q600 card for the GUI Jeff. That never occurred to me. What is making this more difficult is that I'm trying to build this system into a portable case with a 700W power supply without turning it into an EZ Bake oven or killing the power supply....and of course I want it to do EVERYTHING on set.

As Stephen Wright would say "you can't have everything....where would you put it."

GTX 580 looks like a great card but the size, power and heat might be prohibitive for the smaller case.

Question about PCI3 slots: Do they require a PCI3 card to utilize their bandwidth/speed? Would two x16 PCI2 cards get the bandwidth they need on two shared x16 slots (effectively only getting x8)?

Dual Xeons may be the direction I should explore since they are eating less power I believe.

Going the portable case rout is difficult. Be careful if you build anything into something like a Pelican or Storm case -- that adds an extra layer of insulation; in terms of both thermal and electrostatic. 700W is too small for an i7, Rocket and too decent GPUs. Not going to happen. Going to a larger PSU should definitely be considered. They don't take up any more space and don't generate any more heat (typically). But with this being a mobile system of sorts, I understand if you are trying to stay within a certain power profile for use on a generator or on a cart.

Dual Xeons will eat more power and take up more space. And like what was covered above, new Xeon CPUs and chipsets are imminent.

For PCIe 3.0, you do need a v3.0 card to take advantage of the extra bandwidth. With my Rampage IV based PC, I'm able to configure it with two X16 and two X8 cards. I'm running 2 x GTX580s with a Rocket card and an Areca RAID controller... That's all it can handle.

 

[Timo Teravainen]

For PCIe 3.0, you do need a v3.0 card to take advantage of the extra bandwidth. With my Rampage IV based PC, I'm able to configure it with two X16 and two X8 cards. I'm running 2 x GTX580s with a Rocket card and an Areca RAID controller... That's all it can handle.

Is it possible to fit a Decklink card into a system like yours?

 

[Petri Teittinen]

With my Rampage IV based PC, I'm able to configure it with two X16 and two X8 cards.

Not with Rampage IV Extreme you're not - unfortunately. X79 chipset has only 40 PCI-E lanes in total so the max with four cards is 16-8-8-8. Install two GPU Meter gadgets and you'll see one of your GTX580s is running at x8 speed.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Not with Rampage IV Extreme you're not - unfortunately. X79 chipset has only 40 PCI-E lanes in total so the max with four cards is 16-8-8-8. Install two GPU Meter gadgets and you'll see one of your GTX580s is running at x8 speed.

Er... yes. There are two PCI busses on this thing. There are 6 slots -- 5 of them are X16 form factor, one is an X1 form factor. The 4 red-colored slots are PCIe 3.0 and configurable amongst 40 v3.0 lanes. You can have 2 @ X16 with 1 @ X8 that way with one slot disabled. The two black-colored PCIe slots are fixed full time, one at X8, the other at X1. For the red-colored slots on this board, the valid configurations are: X16,X16 or X16,X16,X8 or X16,X8,X8,X8.

The PCIe configuration abilities are the primary reason I chose this board. That and it being one of the only two at the time which had 8 DIMM sockets.


If I were going to make this a serious Resolve system, I would remove the RAID controller in favor of the DeckLink. Or replace the dual GTX580's with a single GTX590. There is also a single PCIe 2.0 X1 slot on the motherboard, so it might be possible, depending on the other cards and what they cover, to squeeze a small X1 compliant crappy graphics card in there for GUI use.

Might also be able to get away with something like the USB3.0 UltraStudio or whatever (don't know if it's supported by Resolve and haven't looked) if you want to have connectivity for a reference/grading monitor as well as other video capture ability.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Er... yes. There are two PCI busses on this thing. There are 6 slots -- 5 of them are X16 form factor, one is an X1 form factor. The 4 red-colored slots are PCIe 3.0 and configurable amongst 40 v3.0 lanes. You can have 2 @ X16 with 1 @ X8 that way with one slot disabled. The two black-colored PCIe slots are fixed full time, one at X8, the other at X1. For the red-colored slots on this board, the valid configurations are: X16,X16 or X16,X16,X8 or X16,X8,X8,X8.

AFAIK you won't be able to use the black slots if all four red ones are in use. 40 lanes total limitation still applies, in other words.

The PCIe configuration abilities are the primary reason I chose this board. That and it being one of the only two at the time which had 8 DIMM sockets.

When I was shopping for a mobo, it was the only reasonably priced one offering full 40 lanes, as well as 8 DIMM sockets. An easy choice at the time because of those features. The faulty one I got was sent back to the German retailer today. I hope it won't take weeks and weeks to get a new one...

 

[Ed Riew]

We're in the middle of building a beast for Maya. It's an SR2 Motherboard with Dual Xeon's, 1 x Quadro 4000 for GUI and 3 x Water Cooled GTX580 cards for GPU render. We're seeing how far we can take GPU rendering. We'll try Resolve on it too though, as it rocks the same principles. Really Big Case to house all of it though. I'll let you know how it goes when we're done building it and sorting out the bugs.