Canon L series Glass

[Niall Maher]

Shooting my Graduation piece for Film School.

Renting RED and Canon L Series glass -[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]24-70 f2.8, a 70-200 f4, and a 16-20 f2.8 Tokina lens.

Any thoughts on the Lenses - strengths/ weaknesses ?

I'm directing Not a DP - just need to get my head around any implications of using said lenses.


Thanks.
Niall
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[Stephen Pruitt]

I do not own any of these lenses, but I do have a number of L-series primes and a couple of zooms.

If you are using the Birger mount, and all is working perfectly, you'll have no issues at all when using the zooms as variable primes, except, of course, that there will be breathing of various amounts with these lenses, some worse than others. You will also NOT be able to zoom in or out while holding focus. Still lenses just don't allow that capability.

We love the look of both Nikon and Canon glass, but there are some compromises involved, and those really deal with the ability to zoom in focus and with breathing while pulling focus. In some cases, the breathing can actually be quite beneficial, however, as the subtle magnification changes can enhance the pulls.

Your lenses are pretty slow by Canon standards, however, so make certain you have plenty of light.

Stephen

 

[Joel Kaye]

Shooting my Graduation piece for Film School.

Renting RED and Canon L Series glass -[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]24-70 f2.8, a 70-200 f4, and a 16-20 f2.8 Tokina lens.

Any thoughts on the Lenses - strengths/ weaknesses ?

I'm directing Not a DP - just need to get my head around any implications of using said lenses.

Those are bit slow if you're going to be in low light. Every lens has it's own characteristics but most tend to look good on RED. I shoot mostly Canon's, but I don't have any of those. Don't be worried about image quality. Check to verify focus is smooth and you have enough light. Shoot a test ahead of time. Also, focus may or may not hold focus through a zoom. backfocus needs to be perfect and the lens has to be capable of it. In short, don't plan on zooming during a shot.

 

[Neil Harrison]

I don't know what availablility is like where you are, but if you are paying to rent these lenses, I would be tempted to shop around and try and get a set of Red Pro Primes / Zeiss Standards etc.

Neil.

 

[Liam Hall]

You will also NOT be able to zoom in or out while holding focus. Still lenses just don't allow that capability.

You can if you are using parfocal lenses. Both those Canon's are parfocal and both are very good lenses indeed. The 70-200 is sharp, but a little slow - if you can get the 70-200 f/2.8 you'll be in better shape. Can't speak for the tokina 16-20 as I've not come across that one, but the tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 is very good if you can get hold of one.

 

[Steve Gibby]

You will also NOT be able to zoom in or out while holding focus. Still lenses just don't allow that capability.

Hmm...that's true of many still zooms, but I disagree somewhat on your conclusion. To categorically state that no still zooms hold focus through a zoom is inaccurate. There are multiple still zooms I own and regularly use on Red which hold focus well throughout a zoom. On my Red cameras I use 22 different Nikon zoom and prime lenses, and a Tokina 11-16 f2.8 in Nikon mount. I also use one Canon zoom on Red.

My Canon FD 150-600 f5.6L zoom, which is stock except for a Century PL mount conversion, holds focus very well throughout a zoom. This stock lens is zoomed by a manual push/pull knob on the lower left side of the control case below the lens barrel. The same knob is also twisted to rack focus. With practice the push/pull/twist action is smooth and accurate. Focus is dead-on throughout a zoom.

Some examples of my Nikon zooms which hold focus throughout a zoom are my 50-300 f4.5 AIS and 80-200 f2.8 AF. The AF version is zoomed and focused by pushing/pulling/twisting the lens barrel housing. The 50-300 is zoomed by twisting a dedicated zoom ring. Both these lenses hold focus very well throughout the full range of a zoom.

My DSLR system is a Canon 5D, with a range of Canon L series lenses. Of the lenses Niall listed, I own the 24-70 f2.8L. It is a very crisp lens, with nice contrast. I also own the 70-200 f2.8L lens that Liam mentioned (mine is the IS version). Its an excellent lens. The three zooms I use the most on my 5D are the 16-35 f2.8 MKII, 24-70 f2.8L, and the 70-200 f2.8L IS. Each of those is an excellent lens. Except for the PL converted 150-600 I don't use my Canon lenses on Red though, because I don't use a Birger mount on my Red cameras. My cameras have Nikon and PL mounts.

All of the above said, I generally use my still zooms on Red as variable primes, even with the ones that hold focus through a zoom. I'm not a big fan of zooming during a shot unless I absolutely have to. Because I work in a lot of fast-moving and dangerous genres where zooms are a better choice than primes, I usually use my zooms to quickly re-frame each shot then hit record - as variable primes. The exception to that is when I'm tracking sports action or wildlife in motion. That's why I selected the Canon 150-600, Nikon 50-300 AIS, and Nikon 80-200 AF for use on sports and wildlife - because they are optically quite good, but each of them holds focus throughout a zoom - something thats critical when shooting high-motion tracking shots of sports and wildlife.

Each still lens model has its nuances, and even within a model there can be variances in performance. Before I buy a still lens, I read all the reviews on it I can find. After getting the lens I test it out in the genres I shoot. If it performs well, I put it into my kits. If not, I return it and get another one of the same lens. There can be individual lemons within each lens model.

Optically most top-level still lenses perform quite well on Red One. The obvious workarounds are in mechanics and accessories. Because I do very mobile work, I never use matte boxes or follow focus units with my still lenses on Red. All filtering is via screw-on filters, and all focusing is by eye, by racking the lens itself. I don't do narrative (by choice), but I do about every other genre there is.

Niall: In experienced hands, using well-selected lenses, and observing the necessary workarounds involved, many still lenses are an optically excellent, cost-effective option for use on Red One. I've used them extensively and almost exclusively on Red One for 2.5 years now, with great results.

 

[chuck colburn]

I agree with Steve about some still camera zooms holding focus when zoomed. The better made (mechanics) ones such as the Canon L series the Leicas and some of the Zeiss made lenses for Contax and the newer Nikon mount ones are quite good. What does vari with these lenses is their consitency from one example to another. Although the variances is less then on cheaper lenses.

 

[ericyoung]

You can if you are using parfocal lenses. Both those Canon's are parfocal and both are very good lenses indeed. The 70-200 is sharp, but a little slow - if you can get the 70-200 f/2.8 you'll be in better shape. Can't speak for the tokina 16-20 as I've not come across that one, but the tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 is very good if you can get hold of one.

I second the 70-200 f2.8, especially as it'll match the max aperture of the other two, and if you can get the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 too you'll be happy when you're shooting in those small rooms and can still get a wide shot!

 

[Nils J. Nesse]

and a 16-20 f2.8 Tokina lens.

Never heard of a Tokina 16-20mm... Are you sure you don't mean the 11-16mm?

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Question on the zooms. I stand corrected on the non-inability of some Canon lenses to do a properly-focused zoom. I, personally, have never encountered these lenses, but that's my inexperience, I'm sure.

Is there that much of a difference between a zoom during the shot and a zoom done during post? I can imagine there might be a touch of resolution loss, but I always try to dolly anyway, so I'm just not sure how that would work.

Thanks.

Stephen

 

[Joel Kaye]

Question on the zooms. I stand corrected on the non-inability of some Canon lenses to do a properly-focused zoom. I, personally, have never encountered these lenses, but that's my inexperience, I'm sure.

The Tokina 11-16, Canon 17-55mm 2.8 EF-S and 70-200 2.8 IS all hold focus for me. Your backfocus has to be set perfectly. I set backfocus and check the zoom at the same time.

Zooming in lens definitely feels different than zooms done in post because the perspective is actually changing. You feel the background move differently on a real zoom. It's unlike a POST zoom - which is simply a crop. Dolly in and zoom out next time you get the chance. It's a classic move you'll recognize the second you play it back. (very subtle small zooms may feel similar - and might be easier in post)

 

[Charles Angus]

Question on the zooms. I stand corrected on the non-inability of some Canon lenses to do a properly-focused zoom. I, personally, have never encountered these lenses, but that's my inexperience, I'm sure.

Is there that much of a difference between a zoom during the shot and a zoom done during post? I can imagine there might be a touch of resolution loss, but I always try to dolly anyway, so I'm just not sure how that would work.

Thanks.

Stephen

I wouldn't want to zoom in more than about 25% in post if I can help it (due to softening). That's not much of a zoom...

 

[Charles Angus]

Question on the zooms. I stand corrected on the non-inability of some Canon lenses to do a properly-focused zoom. I, personally, have never encountered these lenses, but that's my inexperience, I'm sure.

Is there that much of a difference between a zoom during the shot and a zoom done during post? I can imagine there might be a touch of resolution loss, but I always try to dolly anyway, so I'm just not sure how that would work.

Thanks.

Stephen

Another thing about a real zoom - generally the physical aperture size of the lens changes during a zoom, which affects how the image looks.

That is to say, f/2.8 at 100mm is a physical aperture half as big as f/2.8 at 200mm, and it therefore renders background blur differently.

 

[Niall Maher]

Thanks

Thanks

A most sincere thanks to everyone for their Posts....

Very refreshing to see such a supportive community spirit on here.

Thanks All.

Niall

 

[Richard Goodwin]

You may want to check here: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/

The site is focused on still photo but has very in-depth reviews of all Canon current Lenses (as well as many Sigma, Tamaron, and Zeiss Lenses for Canon). This includes nice helpers such as sample shots at different focal lengths and vignetting charts.

I have not used theses lenses on RED but quite a lot on still. Have you considered the 16-35 f2.8 (L series II). That is a beautiful optic and gets you a nice wide image. You might also want to consider some of the primes. There are a few non-L series primes that are actually very good quality such as the 50/1.4 and 85/1.8. I mention these because you could even buy them fairly cheaply. They will give you some flexibility in low light. Also, they are very light/small and can help you in tight situations.

Of course you could also go for the L-series versions of these and rent them. There are some nice companies that do mail order rentals by the week. Take a look at http://www.lensrentals.com/. As well as searching the net.

 

[JD Holloway]

zooms plus....
50 1.4 cheap!
85 1.8 cheap!
low light work.
100mm 2.8 macro for inserts cheap!

 

[Mike Brent]

The Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L is almost $2000. Is there a good ultra wide prime which is more affordable?

Thanks

 

[Shane Betts]

The Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L is almost $2000. Is there a good ultra wide prime which is more affordable?

Thanks

Well, if you're after ultra-wide, the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 is a great little lens and at a good price - if you can get one.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

The 24-70mm is a little slower at the long end. There might/should be little differences like this on all of them. Not a huge deal, just keep it in mind.

 

[Frank Weeks]

Have you considered the 16-35 f2.8 (L series II). That is a beautiful optic and gets you a nice wide image. You might also want to consider some of the primes. There are a few non-L series primes that are actually very good quality such as the 50/1.4 and 85/1.8. I mention these because you could even buy them fairly cheaply. They will give you some flexibility in low light. Also, they are very light/small and can help you in tight situations.

These are all excellent lenses. The 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 are quite inexpensive.