Red ADMITS their own cable destroyed my EVF and now they won't fix it!

[Cvilleslacker]

As to this guy ... his entire email sounds not credible. I get his frustration, but I'm not sure I can trust anything he's saying - I only trust that he genuinely feels wronged. He's also unneccesarily nasty - he could have communicated all he did that more politely.

Now, there is value in his sharing ... it brings some issues out that I'd ask Red to address.

Firstly ... I'd love to see a Red cable tester. I'd like to be able to ensure that a Red cable is working properly and that it won't damage an EVF or Red body or whatever. Something very cheap under $100 would be great. Hopefully it can test all the Red cable types. Based on what little I know, simple continuity testing would probably ensure this to a reasonable standard ... but hey you guys engineer the gear - you tell me what's smart. You can use big technical words if you like, I'll understand you!

Second, why is this possible? Why isn't there some hardware that can prevent this sort of damage in the camera/evf whatever? If nothing else, you could probably drop a relatively simple fuse system in place and at least dramatically reduce the cost of a repair. Maybe such a system already exists, but in this case there was too much power surging or some such? Now that this is being talked about I want to know more.

Third, has Red given any thought to a manufacturers extended warranty? I'm on the razor's edge fiscally, and while I can budget for a warranty/maintenance contract, I can't budget for a $1400 repair on a $3000 part. "RedCare" would probably be a good thing to offer for sale, especially as you guys expand past highly trained and experienced film pros into "the masses."

Last, has Red ever given any thought to a system that sends out "loaner" parts when something is in for repair? There has to be a system that would work for both Red and users who need their gear. I mean aside from hoping you can rent locally.

As always, thanks for your time and thanks for being ... well for being as cool as Red.

Alexander: ahhhh, what? You say my arguments don't sound credible, and then you GO ON to say that the exact things I'm talking about need further investigation and possible workarounds? Dude, really? You make some good points on why I might be testy (and I am after those unfriendly responses by an actual Red employee), but saying it's not credible and THEN going on to say these things might need work don't jive buddy.

Eric Hurt

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

A cable that has been out in the field being used can get damaged (love you ACs out there but sometimes it's scary watching you work hastily) and I suppose just the right kind of damage may lead to short circuiting and possible damage to components.

emphasis added by me.

There is something I like to teach all the people who work for me on sets, and to anyone else who will listen:

"Slow is fast"

I learned that from special forces operators I had occasion to work with. They mean that taking the time to get things right the first time is usually better than hurrying up and doing a crappy job.

Now "slow is fast" doesn't meant to work slowly ... just to take the time you need to get it right. Training and experience is what takes that needed time down, not rushing.

If they can take time to do their jobs right when people are literally shooting at them, then an AC can take time to plug in a cable correctly or to mount a lens properly.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Perspecitive

Perspecitive

I suppose I should just stay out of this, but where's the fun in that? ;-)

So the RedUser community is indebted to Eric for the heads up?

RED is just supposed to keep fixing things for free after the warrantee expires?

FWIW my initial comments were about the philosophical implications of strategies employed to overcome the imbalanced relationship between large entities and individuals, such as the threat of public "outing". I wrote it in this thread because I felt like Eric was calling out a company who, based on my dealings with them, doesn't deserve this kind of blowback.

Cheers - #19

 

[Cvilleslacker]

I suppose I should just stay out of this, but where's the fun in that? ;-)

So the RedUser community is indebted to Eric for the heads up?

RED is just supposed to keep fixing things for free after the warrantee expires?

FWIW my initial comments were about the philosophical implications of strategies employed to overcome the imbalanced relationship between large entities and individuals, such as the threat of public "outing". I wrote it in this thread because I felt like Eric was calling out a company who, based on my dealings with them, doesn't deserve this kind of blowback.

Cheers - #19

No Blair, you don't owe me anything... for now big boy;-)

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Just talk to Brent...it's pretty simple. He's the fairest guy in the world, he will listen to your side of the story, and he is authorized to mediate all of the customer service situations.

name-calling and acting self-righteous aren't the solutions - it's one thing to get upset but when a solution is offered or when the possibility of a solution is offered - and then to continue to get upset?

I don't get that...you were given an opportunity at a resolution and squandered it - well, maybe not, if you can still calm yourself down...these guys are very experienced at handling our drama! just give them a chance.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

emphasis added by me.

There is something I like to teach all the people who work for me on sets, and to anyone else who will listen:

"Slow is fast"

I learned that from special forces operators I had occasion to work with. They mean that taking the time to get things right the first time is usually better than hurrying up and doing a crappy job.

Now "slow is fast" doesn't meant to work slowly ... just to take the time you need to get it right. Training and experience is what takes that needed time down, not rushing.

If they can take time to do their jobs right when people are literally shooting at them, then an AC can take time to plug in a cable correctly or to mount a lens properly.

Exactly the way I like to work as well. I sometimes get in trouble I think because I don't get too rattled on set, which can be interpreted as maybe I don't care or don't see the urgency of a situation. The reality is, I'm assessing the situation, trying to remain calm, and looking for the most efficient solution. I just happen to do it in a zen manner.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Alexander: ahhhh, what? You say my arguments don't sound credible, and then you GO ON to say that the exact things I'm talking about need further investigation and possible workarounds? Dude, really? You make some good points on why I might be testy (and I am after those unfriendly responses by an actual Red employee), but saying it's not credible and THEN going on to say these things might need work don't jive buddy.

I see that went over your head.

I obviously agree that there is an issue, and I want to know more, and see if there are other solutions. Just like you.

I am being polite and professional - I hope.

You are being nasty and defensive, when it isn't called for.

My point is to get answers without causing any more drama. I want to know for myself, but I also want this issue - whatever it is - solved amicably.

That starts by being nice.

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" -unknown, ancient aphorism

 

[Brent Carter]

Steve, I offered to discuss with hm offline and he declined. The email I was writing to help sort through the situation has been deleted.

Pretty amazing the same person who says I am being "petty" resorts to calling me a "baby". I would think my over 2300x REDUSER posts would indicate I can handle a forum.

To (hopefully) bring this to a close. As I have said more than a few times, you feel you are not getting industry-best service - or even if you want to yell at someone, we'll listen. I am only a phone call or an email away. The desire to work one-on-one with a customer is not trying to "hide anything", it is us knowing that every situation is unique and needs to be treated with the respect it deserves.

BC

 

[Cvilleslacker]

I see that went over your head.

I obviously agree that there is an issue, and I want to know more, and see if there are other solutions. Just like you.

I am being polite and professional - I hope.

You are being nasty and defensive, when it isn't called for.

My point is to get answers without causing any more drama. I want to know for myself, but I also want this issue - whatever it is - solved amicably.

That starts by being nice.

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" -unknown, ancient aphorism

Saying that my entire email is not creditable is not "Honey" Alexander.

 

[Brent J. Craig]

Is the RealNames policy not required in the complaint forum, Cvilleslacker?

Things break, especially delicate connectors on complicated gear. Owning and maintaining professional gear is expensive - you build that into what you charge your clients. A $1300 repair bill for a $3000 shows how reasonably-priced the item was in the first place.

You just called a highly respected and helpful member of Team Red a "baby". I hope you enjoy the Red gear you currently own, because you are probably on "The List" now.

 

[Jarred Land]

Eric Hurt... First of all you need to use your real name on here. You should be banned for a bunch of different reasons, but the reason you just did was purely for that.

Second.. sorry this happened to you. There are a lot of little pins in the EVF cables.. if you bend them in the field and don't straighten them out you could screw things up. Not just with RED cables, but pretty much any cable that sends power through it. You refused to send in your cable for inspection... so we are only to assume.

But don't worry... you will never need to worry about this again.... as we will never sell you anything ever again. We love our customers. They mean the world to us. We are ok when customers complain.. we listen. Complaining doesn't make you a bad customer... it is everything else about you that makes you a bad customer


One good thing out of this thread though is the idea of a little field cable tester... I like that. Ill check with the engineers if its something we can do.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Exactly the way I like to work as well. I sometimes get in trouble I think because I don't get too rattled on set, which can be interpreted as maybe I don't care or don't see the urgency of a situation. The reality is, I'm assessing the situation, trying to remain calm, and looking for the most efficient solution. I just happen to do it in a zen manner.

I was on a gig where we were having some issues with the camera. I informed the producer that I would be reinstalling the firmware and shooting a little test footage. There was still an hour of lighting and setup before we could shoot in any case. They guy went half nuts but I remained calm and went back to doing my job. There was more drama and quite frankly it slowed down my troubleshooting efforts but I got it solved, the footage looked great and at the end of the day the guy couldn't thank me enough for being so calm. Unbeknownst to me at the time, my calm demeanor actually reduced his stress level. I can only imagine how freaked out he would have been had I acted flustered.

There, now that's a proper threadjack ;-)

Cheers - #19

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Exactly the way I like to work as well. I sometimes get in trouble I think because I don't get too rattled on set, which can be interpreted as maybe I don't care or don't see the urgency of a situation. The reality is, I'm assessing the situation, trying to remain calm, and looking for the most efficient solution. I just happen to do it in a zen manner.

That has happened to me too! "Why aren't you rushing?" or the like.

That's when I get everyone's attention and tell that story, almost exactly like I just wrote it.

Usually I add a comment relevant to the situation at hand. "If she drops the lens because she is rushing, then we lose the day at least. Possibly more if someone gets hurt. Let her take the time to get it right." Might be a lens, a lamp, or maybe a scaffold going up - just whatever is going on at the moment.

Most producers and directors see the sense immediately and chill out. The rest ... I will never work for them again.

Well ... never is a strong word, but I will think about it seriously. As Blair just pointed out ... some people need that calm, even if they don't know it at the time.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Saying that my entire email is not creditable is not "Honey" Alexander.

I wasn't trying to be nice to you!

Oh ... I see you are banned. Sorry.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

But don't worry... you will never need to worry about this again.... as we will never sell you anything ever again. We love our customers. They mean the world to us. We are ok when customers complain.. we listen. Complaining doesn't make you a bad customer... it is everything else about you that makes you a bad customer

I get firing customers ... but I have to say that I'm uncomfortable with this one.

I don't like how he was treating all of you at Red, but I also thought he'd calm down eventually.

I don't know the whole story I suppose, but well it makes me uncomfortable.

One good thing out of this thread though is the idea of a little field cable tester... I like that. Ill check with the engineers if its something we can do.

Did I make a suggestion someone at Red likes?

It may be silly, but that made my day.

 

[axel ebermann]

Jarred,

While I do not agree with the language and conduct used by the complainer in this discussion, this is sending a very troubling message to every Red camera owner.

What you are basically saying is that somebody can invest several hundred thousand dollars into a camera package and if they piss you off
for whatever reason you will stop servicing their gear or selling parts.

You guys decided to take this out on this forum as much as he did. You could have just let it rest with a 'please contact us directly to resolve this issue"
and ignore him from thereon.
There are instances in which there will be different opinions between you and your customers. And there must be a way to resolve this without a camera owner
having to worry if tomorrow you will still be selling them a much needed cable for their kit.

Eric Hurt... First of all you need to use your real name on here. You should be banned for a bunch of different reasons, but the reason you just did was purely for that.

Second.. sorry this happened to you. There are a lot of little pins in the EVF cables.. if you bend them in the field and don't straighten them out you could screw things up. Not just with RED cables, but pretty much any cable that sends power through it. You refused to send in your cable for inspection... so we are only to assume.

But don't worry... you will never need to worry about this again.... as we will never sell you anything ever again. We love our customers. They mean the world to us. We are ok when customers complain.. we listen. Complaining doesn't make you a bad customer... it is everything else about you that makes you a bad customer


One good thing out of this thread though is the idea of a little field cable tester... I like that. Ill check with the engineers if its something we can do.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

One good thing out of this thread though is the idea of a little field cable tester... I like that. Ill check with the engineers if its something we can do.

That would be amazing!!!! I treat my cables like gold, but I can't control how everyone else treats them. This would be a great piece of mind tool. I have audio cable testers and they are very helpful. I also need to find a good FW/eSata cable tester.

If there's a silver lining with this thread, looks like everyone may get a useful tool for identifying cable issues. If that happens, we can thank Eric for that. Sorry, I can't help but put a positive spin on everything.

 

[Jonathan Stevenson]

we will never sell you anything ever again.

Yeesh... Remind me to never piss off Jarred.

 

[Jarred Land]

Yeesh... Remind me to never piss off Jarred.

Don't worry guys... it takes a lot to get on the shit list. We have a pretty high understanding of when things go to shit people can get bent out of shape.. temporarily.

I tried to convey in my post that complaining isn't going to get you on the list.. Remember, you are only seeing half the story here.

 

[axel ebermann]

everything that helps us 'quickcheck' our gear in the field is a huge help.

I just got my Red Pro Focus
and I can check my backfocus while I am on set in no time.
Needless to mention I am loving it

so two thumbs up for a cable tester !!!

That would be amazing!!!! I treat my cables like gold, but I can't control how everyone else treats them. This would be a great piece of mind tool. I have audio cable testers and they are very helpful. I also need to find a good FW/eSata cable tester.

If there's a silver lining with this thread, looks like everyone may get a useful tool for identifying cable issues. If that happens, we can thank Eric for that. Sorry, I can't help but put a positive spin on everything.