EPIC-S...

[Tobias Ashenheim]

i have 7D..also i can shoot with Epic-M
could you tell me what are you going to do with Epic-S that 7D cant do?

HDR, high resolution for features and projection (also stabilisation and reframing possibilities), slow motion without being at 720p, no tedious post fixes for constant moire over shirts, walls, tiles, fences etc, less rolling shutter, better colour rendition/latitude/ overall image without h264 compression, sdi outputs, 2 mic inputs, proper monitoring.

those are the things that im looking forward to with my EPIC S, but im sure you already know this, so i guess i don't understand your question?

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

HDR, high resolution for features and projection (also stabilisation and reframing possibilities), slow motion without being at 720p, no tedious post fixes for constant moire over shirts, walls, tiles, fences etc, less rolling shutter, better colour rendition/latitude/ overall image without h264 compression, sdi outputs, 2 mic inputs, proper monitoring.

those are the things that im looking forward to with my EPIC S, but im sure you already know this, so i guess i don't understand your question?

HDRx? You mean that magic thing requires no lightning..yeah its enabled on our epic-m ask me how many times we used it? Never...
it shoots 5K 96fps and you can tell the same story with 7D
sorry for my bad english im trying to say stop thinking you are going to shoot EPIC movie with epic-m.its all about talent not camera,resolution,compression,latitude

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

HDRx? You mean that magic thing requires no lightning..yeah its enabled on our epic-m ask me how many times we used it? Never...
it shoots 5K 96fps and you can tell the same story with 7D
sorry for my bad english im trying to say stop thinking you are going to shoot EPIC movie with epic-m.its all about talent not camera,resolution,compression,latitude

I've shot and even been forced to shoot 7D several times and I hate that thing. Crop factor, crappy compression, aliasing, moire, really bad skew and rolling shutter. RED fixes all that with Epic gives me 5K and RAW.

 

[Tobias Ashenheim]

i think you'll find your being quite patronising and judgemental, confusing budgets with ability, and know how.
who on earth here said HDRx means no lighting? maybe its bad english, maybe its a bad attitude.
if you want to shoot 720p for a feature, good luck with that, get all the moire taken out of your images at production expense, your choice. i mean why not just use an iphone? technically you could tell the same story, but what that has to do with this thread i cannot see.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

you can also tell the same story with an old minidv cam, but I would prefer an epic or 35mm film and many other things. I can write a script on paper in mud on a stone but I prefer the computer for ease of use and allowing the steady flow of my ideas, now that's just me maybe I'm crazy maybe one thing I do know is I have horrible handwriting which I can't read sometimes so it works for me.

Anyone who thinks a camera will replace the need to light is wrong, it may allow you to make use of more natural or found lighting but it doesn't mean you have to put in any less effort to ensure you get the lighting effects you want.

we all know it's the knowledge and skill of the person behind the camera, but is it really necessary to throw this around, especially here on a website dedicated to a high end digital cameras, it's not a dogma/independent/art house chat board last time I checked.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

i think you'll find your being quite patronising and judgemental, confusing budgets with ability, and know how.
who on earth here said HDRx means no lighting? maybe its bad english, maybe its a bad attitude.
if you want to shoot 720p for a feature, good luck with that, get all the moire taken out of your images at production expense, your choice. i mean why not just use an iphone? technically you could tell the same story, but what that has to do with this thread i cannot see.

Tobias its a general thought about HDRx ,not mine
in the end im going to buy Epic-S when its out not a dogma fan here..im hard die red fan who wants to get RED tattoo on shoulder in soon.Just tried to tell something else but i guess my english not enough for this

 

[patrickortman]

Tobias its a general thought about HDRx ,not mine
in the end im going to buy Epic-S when its out not a dogma fan here..im hard die red fan who wants to get RED tattoo on shoulder in soon.Just tried to tell something else but i guess my english not enough for this

If you don't get the tattoo over your heart, you are not a true believer.

 

[roryhinds]

EPIC-S will not be upgradable to the Dragon Sensor, which makes the EPIC-X a far better option when you think about it.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

EPIC-S will not be upgradable to the Dragon Sensor, which makes the EPIC-X a far better option when you think about it.

Exactly the reason I decided to go for the Epic-X.

 

[RayFrisby]

I think the Epic S will be a great camera, however it's in a different market to the X. The S will be for those who want a 5K camera that can take Cine and other lens, and is a step up from the Scarlet 2/3 Removable.

EPIC-S will not be upgradable to the Dragon Sensor, which makes the EPIC-X a far better option when you think about it.

The Dragon Upgrade is a great option but you can always look at what's coming next without really taking advantage of what you have. For me it's going to be a real dilemma whether to opt for the Epic S or Scarlet Removable. At the end of the day it will be down to my budget.


I for one would love if the EPIC S package came in about 16-17K and included.

Epic-S Body,
Canon Mount or other PL Mount
SSD Module and 128 SSD,
5" Monitor
Redmote,
BasePlate
RED Handle and 2 Batteries plus Dual Charger.

The reason I think the Canon mount should be included is it will offer those on a tight budget the option of using affordable glass until
they get off the ground. It will also allow for the automatic focus, tracking and racking etc. which is a huge plus.
My 2 Cents

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

EPIC-S will not be upgradable to the Dragon Sensor, which makes the EPIC-X a far better option when you think about it.

And after the Dragon sensor comes out RED will release their "Mars" cameras that shoot 24k and you'll be stuck with your puny Epic...

Point being there is always something better around the corner, just depends how far you need to go. I can't see how I could NEED more than an Epic-S for the next few years...at least... And if need be I can always sell it and get the next big thing from RED.

 

[Michael Millichamp]

And after the Dragon sensor comes out RED will release their "Mars" cameras that shoot 24k and you'll be stuck with your puny Epic...

Point being there is always something better around the corner, just depends how far you need to go. I can't see how I could NEED more than an Epic-S for the next few years...at least... And if need be I can always sell it and get the next big thing from RED.

Jarek makes valid points.

Yes the Dragon upgrade is amazing, but for people who don't need it, Epic S is the camera we want. Oh well it doesn't have an upgrade. I can definitely live with that.

 

[Tobias Ashenheim]

here here, considering whats been said about the epic looking like 65mm film, it isn't gonna suddenly not be good enough in a couple of years... what you can shoot and make look good today will still look good in a decade. i mean, as long as your standing toe to toe with 35mm film, with solid 4k deliverable i dont think theres anything to worry about. i dont think current* epic images will be outdated for a long time.

although jim might make another "announcement"... haha

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Jarek makes valid points.

Yes the Dragon upgrade is amazing, but for people who don't need it, Epic S is the camera we want. Oh well it doesn't have an upgrade. I can definitely live with that.

I don't even remember what the Dragon details are. But it's not like it's a free upgrade for Epic-X owners, so we're still talking about Buying a $30 camera body NOW and who knows how much for the upgrade, could be another $10-20k...this I can't afford. A $15k Epic-S...I most certainly can.

 

[Malvin Ng]

I don't even remember what the Dragon details are. But it's not like it's a free upgrade for Epic-X owners, so we're still talking about Buying a $30 camera body NOW and who knows how much for the upgrade, could be another $10-20k...this I can't afford. A $15k Epic-S...I most certainly can.

I think you missed a k in the $30

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

I think you missed a k in the $30

Way too many K's in RED to keep track of!...lol!

 

[Sergio Perez]

THis is the camera I want, but is not the camera I'm going to get. I'll get the F3, mainly because its the only one I could get. Since the Scarlet days, since 2007, which was when I registered in this forum, I always dreamed of joining the Red revolution. I'm not a fanboy-in fact, I've overseen many productions shot on RED, as a producer, as the employer of a big company, has part of the establishment. And all these productions ended up done by established big companies. Red became part of the "establishment". Its just not part of the indie vocabularie. Its part of the wealthy indie, no doubt, but its not part of the regular indie, the hvx user, the dvxuser, the guy that comes out of film school, or the youngster full of energy and ideas, and also talent, but without a wealthy and deep pocket. Its obvious that a Robert Rodriguez like persona who is willing to sell his organs to produce a film can afford a RED. Nowadays, my organs are not enough to afford an Epic M. Rent? No such thing over here. As an analogy, its like I'm a pioneer gold digger in the early XIX century in terms of filmmaking industry and support over here.. Its just so incredibly frustrating being an Indie filmmaker looking for a revolution and being able to see and hear everything about it (Red) but just being left out. What I see is just everything benefiting the same people: the big guys, the established names, the big rental companies and big production houses and studios. Yes, maybe a couple of Hollywood mavericks that want out of the studio system, like big name directors or even cash loaded indies, but the majority of the talented, peniless citar players- Moulin Rouge Fan- well, they are still penniless and have to keep to their 5D's, 7D's and, stretching it, F3's when they sell their bodies, or work their asses of. Rant? Maybe. Is Red a profit driven company? Absolutely! Do they need to have their heavy investment in R&D returned? Sure. In fact, that's more than understandable. Is Red going to be a standard in Digital Cinema? No doubt. But the HVX, dvx, indie filmmakers, the ones that have opened the market for the democratization of film and digital content production, those are still left out of the Red revolution. The relationships, the lobbies, the establishment is just too big to allow this. I honestly believe Red started up as a company that wanted to challenge this, but nowadays everything just end up entangled on the complexity of Hollywood, the Rental and Big production house system. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong on this, and hope that RED will create and release a camera, prior to the competition, that will be the tool of the filmmaking revolution, the "AK47" of indie filmmakers. But as time goes by, deadlines go further and further, that faith just fades...

A bit of a rant from a Red follower over these years. Red is already a cinema standard, it obviously needs to defend its status. Probably in a couple of months, or in a year, Epic-S is really a reality. I'll probably regret this rant in the future, but right now, I really felt I needed to express this frustration. Seeing Lions, Reptiles, High DInamic Range Shots of Birds with Canon lenses, etc. Just made me reach boiling point.

 

[Tobias Ashenheim]

What I see is just everything benefiting the same people: the big guys, the established names, the big rental companies and big production houses and studios.

i understand sometimes this kind of thing can be frustrating, and its your absolute right to let off steam, but just a thought..

Your above statement pertains to every professional industry i can think of, but as DPs/ Filmmakers we truly are living through revolutionary times. film gear has never been so democratised. its not basic evolution of an industry its extremely rapid quality and feature increase.

even a few years ago i had to use HVX with my gloomy cumbersome 35mm lens adapter and my gear came to about $15000, just for 35mm depth of field look. that was a revolution in low budget images then. now you can pick up a 550D for $600. this revolution is not just benefiting the top rung, and with Scarlet, F3, Af101 etc low budget cinematography has never ever been so well catered for, and 35mm or large chip aesthetic has always been the preserve of high budget filmmaking, till the last few years, with RED one, then eventually DSLRS encompassing "consumer" level.

if raw image quality is your thing and rental isnt an option Scarlet will be an amaaaazing camera. i mean 2/3rds can be more cinematic than 35mm in capable hands, look at finchers films. Scarlet could turn out to be equivalent to a viper filmstream camera, with 3k raw with ludicrous frame rates and features (at the price of a low end prosumer camcorder) that will once again blow everything else out of the water, and force the industry to compete. believe the hype, its not every day expensive industries get such a shake up. Im sure companies are having nightmares trying to keep up, and still protect their high end lines. not trying to argue, but sometimes re looking at something with fresh eyes helps you see what you have available.

i mean, if only the price/performance of optics could follow this model!

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

i understand sometimes this kind of thing can be frustrating, and its your absolute right to let off steam, but just a thought..

Your above statement pertains to every professional industry i can think of, but as DPs/ Filmmakers we truly are living through revolutionary times. film gear has never been so democratised. its not basic evolution of an industry its extremely rapid quality and feature increase.

even a few years ago i had to use HVX with my gloomy cumbersome 35mm lens adapter and my gear came to about $15000, just for 35mm depth of field look. that was a revolution in low budget images then. now you can pick up a 550D for $600. this revolution is not just benefiting the top rung, and with Scarlet, F3, Af101 etc low budget cinematography has never ever been so well catered for, and 35mm or large chip aesthetic has always been the preserve of high budget filmmaking, till the last few years, with RED one, then eventually DSLRS encompassing "consumer" level.

if raw image quality is your thing and rental isnt an option Scarlet will be an amaaaazing camera. i mean 2/3rds can be more cinematic than 35mm in capable hands, look at finchers films. Scarlet could turn out to be equivalent to a viper filmstream camera, with 3k raw with ludicrous frame rates and features (at the price of a low end prosumer camcorder) that will once again blow everything else out of the water, and force the industry to compete. believe the hype, its not every day expensive industries get such a shake up. Im sure companies are having nightmares trying to keep up, and still protect their high end lines. not trying to argue, but sometimes re looking at something with fresh eyes helps you see what you have available.

i mean, if only the price/performance of optics could follow this model!

I agree with your statements and optimism. But I understand Sergio's frustrations too. I myself have been waiting for a scarlet for a good amount of time. And the excitement with time does fade. The little teases of shots are nice, but its still not the camera. I myself am still holding out hoping that the Scarlet does release within the year. Otherwise i'm on a 7D for another year, or upgrading to something until it is attainable.

Regarding the Indie low budget market Sergio is 100% right, and no fault to RED as things happen, and the other cameras may not be as "pro" but they're out there and ready to shoot. I fear many other people in his situation will begin to keep falling off the longer it takes.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

you can buy a used red one for 15 k €. if thats not indy i dont know what is

THis is the camera I want, but is not the camera I'm going to get. I'll get the F3, mainly because its the only one I could get. Since the Scarlet days, since 2007, which was when I registered in this forum, I always dreamed of joining the Red revolution. I'm not a fanboy-in fact, I've overseen many productions shot on RED, as a producer, as the employer of a big company, has part of the establishment. And all these productions ended up done by established big companies. Red became part of the "establishment". Its just not part of the indie vocabularie. Its part of the wealthy indie, no doubt, but its not part of the regular indie, the hvx user, the dvxuser, the guy that comes out of film school, or the youngster full of energy and ideas, and also talent, but without a wealthy and deep pocket. Its obvious that a Robert Rodriguez like persona who is willing to sell his organs to produce a film can afford a RED. Nowadays, my organs are not enough to afford an Epic M. Rent? No such thing over here. As an analogy, its like I'm a pioneer gold digger in the early XIX century in terms of filmmaking industry and support over here.. Its just so incredibly frustrating being an Indie filmmaker looking for a revolution and being able to see and hear everything about it (Red) but just being left out. What I see is just everything benefiting the same people: the big guys, the established names, the big rental companies and big production houses and studios. Yes, maybe a couple of Hollywood mavericks that want out of the studio system, like big name directors or even cash loaded indies, but the majority of the talented, peniless citar players- Moulin Rouge Fan- well, they are still penniless and have to keep to their 5D's, 7D's and, stretching it, F3's when they sell their bodies, or work their asses of. Rant? Maybe. Is Red a profit driven company? Absolutely! Do they need to have their heavy investment in R&D returned? Sure. In fact, that's more than understandable. Is Red going to be a standard in Digital Cinema? No doubt. But the HVX, dvx, indie filmmakers, the ones that have opened the market for the democratization of film and digital content production, those are still left out of the Red revolution. The relationships, the lobbies, the establishment is just too big to allow this. I honestly believe Red started up as a company that wanted to challenge this, but nowadays everything just end up entangled on the complexity of Hollywood, the Rental and Big production house system. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong on this, and hope that RED will create and release a camera, prior to the competition, that will be the tool of the filmmaking revolution, the "AK47" of indie filmmakers. But as time goes by, deadlines go further and further, that faith just fades...

A bit of a rant from a Red follower over these years. Red is already a cinema standard, it obviously needs to defend its status. Probably in a couple of months, or in a year, Epic-S is really a reality. I'll probably regret this rant in the future, but right now, I really felt I needed to express this frustration. Seeing Lions, Reptiles, High DInamic Range Shots of Birds with Canon lenses, etc. Just made me reach boiling point.