RED STATION REDMAG 2.5" - What is it's intended USE?

[Johnny Friday]

So got my SSD module, SSD cards and entire base/mag station. Seems i forgot I also bought the 2.5" redmag station.....I'm assuming there will NOT be any modules for RED or EPIC that accept 2.5" SSD's -- is that a correct assumption? So, is the 2.5" base station only for storing data like a standard 3.5" spinning drive? or smaller notebook drives?

....honestly i'm trying to see what advantage there is over a SATA 3.5" disk drive....say a 3TB drive that sells for around $185 to $200usd. vs. 2.5" spinning drives. OR are there some SSD options? BUT, bottom line is (my assumption)---there are no plans for a 2.5" SSD module on epic or red no??

 

[Paul Nordin]

yes, my understanding from previous posts by Jim and Jarred is the 2.5"Redmag Station is for standard Off-the-shelf 2.5"SSD and spinning media that will be used as download targets/backups of the contents of the camera media on the 1.8"SSDs.

 

[Johnny Friday]

yep, kind of what i thought. I was trying to remember WHY i bought the 2.5" station.....ordered months and months ago....and arrived a few weeks ago; took out the 1.8" station on a shoot and back now looking at the other modules---yep, makes sense. But now after looking at 3.5" stations...i took one on this shoot. Much better bang for the buck---although slightly larger.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I think they wanted to offer an integrated portable solution that would perform reliably in more rugged field conditions. Rugged and portable = 2.5" drives.

Just my opinion ;-)

Cheers - #19

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

We plan on using the 2.5" for the exact reasons Blair just mentioned so if you plan on selling it... shoot me a PM and a GREAT price

 

[Paul Nordin]

Which 3.5" station did you use? I've only found the Newer Tech models which use USB3 for faster connections, but that hoses up my MacBook Pro becuase I need to use the expansion port for an eSata card to connect to the RedMag station. Haven't run across an eSata drive dock.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Which 3.5" station did you use? I've only found the Newer Tech models which use USB3 for faster connections, but that hoses up my MacBook Pro becuase I need to use the expansion port for an eSata card to connect to the RedMag station. Haven't run across an eSata drive dock.

I've been using MacGuru hot swappable boxes for a few years...love em and their customer service is untouched....you can actually tal to the owners/techs about your needs and they'll assist you with real world answers. Anyway, i have two 5 bay hot swappable trayless systems via e-stata 2 connection. Can run from my Desktop or in the field with my macbook pro. IN the field i use a SINGLE bay e-sata system which is hot swappable and uses of course 3.5" drives...so i can fit it into my entire REDMAG station. Cost is far less for the 3.5" drives than 2.5". Not sure why the 2.5" drives would be any more rugged in the field--smaller for sure, but hell it's only slightly smaller and again, price point on drives is an obvious factor here IMO. I've been in the arctic four times with them; south pacific half a dozen and on numerous ships and boats under some rather extreme conditions.
Here's a quick snap from last week on a two week shoot on the sea of cortez on my boat to see the scale of it all with my macbook pro MacGuru Esata 3.5" drive running a 3TB hitachi drive @ 7200rpm with 64mb buffer; 1.8" RED MAG and a 1TB firewire drive.

I bought my systems here: http://www.macgurus.com/store/ecom-prodshow/BurlyLite_SATA.html


NOTE: not sure if you can tell, but i use a small Pcie card that allows dual Esata connections. So i have the REDMAG and Hot swabbpable bay attached to my macbook pro.

 

[Paul Nordin]

Hey Johnny, thats a great tip, thanks! The Burly eSata 3.5" drive enclosure is just what I have been looking for.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Hey Johnny, thats a great tip, thanks! The Burly eSata 3.5" drive enclosure is just what I have been looking for.

I love em....i think i paid around $225 for the enclosure and i HIGHLY RECOMMEND spending the extra $10 or whatever it is to go TRAYLESS.....just open the bay door and pop the drive and and slam one in. Way easier than getting your screwdriver and removing four small screws, then dropping one and so on....

I still have my 2.5" REDMAG station and will keep it since i have some hi-budget commercials i work on that just like the fact that it's new and small. BUT, i don't know any 2.5" drives with more than 1TB capacity.....unless i missed something. Fact is with data getting thicker and thicker, what once a 500gb drive could do will just NOT do any longer. 2TB and 3TB are filling up in a few days for me on a wildlife shoot.

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Not sure why the 2.5" drives would be any more rugged in the field--smaller for sure, but hell it's only slightly smaller and again, price point on drives is an obvious factor here IMO.

The MacGuru stuff looks good. I think the idea behind small, compact, & rugged with the RED station is using 2.5 inch SSD drives - no spinning discs. Of course the downside is price & storage capacity.

Tim Eaton

 

[Johnny Friday]

The MacGuru stuff looks good. I think the idea behind small, compact, & rugged with the RED station is using 2.5 inch SSD drives - no spinning discs. Of course the downside is price & storage capacity.

Tim Eaton

I'd say it's a HUGE downside with 2.5" SSD's....I could NEVER get that one on the budget for just about any shoot i can think of....2.5" SSD's at a costs of: 240GB Drives at around $480 & 480GB drives at $890---from OWC website: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce/Solid_State_Pro

**just would never happen in the TV; Doc and Commercial world that I work in. UNLESS i was providing drives. So for a single 480GB SSD drive at $880 i can end up with 12TB of storage by buying (4) 3TB drives (3.5" spinning 7200rpm @64mb cache) at $185 each and have $140 bucks left over to add into the food budget. YEP, i have to say a no brainer decision here. BUT, 2.5" spinning drives i see.....but still cost and size limitations.

 

[Timothy Eaton]

I'd say it's a HUGE downside with 2.5" SSD's....I could NEVER get that one on the budget for just about any shoot i can think of....2.5" SSD's at a costs of: 240GB Drives at around $480 & 480GB drives at $890---from OWC website: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce/Solid_State_Pro

**just would never happen in the TV; Doc and Commercial world that I work in. UNLESS i was providing drives. So for a single 480GB SSD drive at $880 i can end up with 12TB of storage by buying (4) 3TB drives (3.5" spinning 7200rpm @64mb cache) at $185 each and have $140 bucks left over to add into the food budget. YEP, i have to say a no brainer decision here. BUT, 2.5" spinning drives i see.....but still cost and size limitations.

Like I said, downside is cost - it's not my solution either. I use CalDigit e-sata RAID drives in RAID 1 mirrored, and get duplicate backup with one copy - pretty fast. In some future world when the cost of SSDs comes down, however, I can imagine backing up to a couple of larger SSD drives simultaneously using the RED station. No moving parts - pretty nice.

 

[Paul Nordin]

In some future world when the cost of SSDs comes down, however, I can imagine backing up to a couple of larger SSD drives simultaneously using the RED station. No moving parts - pretty nice.

I don't see that happening any time soon. And by then the eSata interface will be obsoleted so the base station will need to be replaced. I think John has the bang-for-the-buck solution for all but the largest budget projects which can justify boxes of SSDs to move media around quickly.

 

[James Brundige]

I love em....i think i paid around $225 for the enclosure and i HIGHLY RECOMMEND spending the extra $10 or whatever it is to go TRAYLESS.....just open the bay door and pop the drive and and slam one in. Way easier than getting your screwdriver and removing four small screws, then dropping one and so on....

I still have my 2.5" REDMAG station and will keep it since i have some hi-budget commercials i work on that just like the fact that it's new and small. BUT, i don't know any 2.5" drives with more than 1TB capacity.....unless i missed something. Fact is with data getting thicker and thicker, what once a 500gb drive could do will just NOT do any longer. 2TB and 3TB are filling up in a few days for me on a wildlife shoot.

How are you jacked in to the MacBook? Old PCIE slot or current SD slot?

 

[Johnny Friday]

How are you jacked in to the MacBook? Old PCIE slot or current SD slot?

Not sure what an SD slot is--unless that's the firewire or usb?.....but the small express 34 slot where you can put in a small pcie type adapter and utilize e-stata connection x 2 connections. So i can run from 1.8" REDMAG into macpro and also the estata hot-swap box.

 

[Tom.Wong]

I like these too

http://www.provantage.com/cru-dataport-35110-2530-0000~7CRUD0QC.htm

gives a quad interface. more pricy than what John uses, but depending on the situation, I have to mix up what connections I"m using, or I might need to connect to somebody else's computer that isn't esata capable. all you really need is 2, and your set until every one of those connections are obsolete.

I typically use docks that leave the bare drive exposed which are even cheaper, but in the field, the ones that provide a full body enclosure are a safer bet.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Why 2.5

Why 2.5

Johnny,

I'm quite pleased that the REDMAG 2.5 was introduced into the product line.

For myself, why 2.5" vs a different form factor?

Have you had a chance to try out the CineDeck Extreme?
(I know Woods Hole has bought a number for their UW work - if you have a contact up there it would be worth a call or email)
Records 10 bit 4:2:2, 12 bit 4:4:4, CineForm Digital Intermediates via HDSDI

Uses 2.5" SATA SSD's.


I like the idea of being able to use one media type on different jobs - makes the investment far more practical and affordable.

I'll still need two types of SSD's - one set for my REDOne and (soon)EPIC-X, the other for the CineDeck Extreme and field backups of RDC images.
This is one case where two is better than three...

 

[Johnny Friday]

Cinedeck....great all in one record/review deck. Used it last year on a shoot. Although i think it was the Cinedeck Wrangler. But as i recall it was a record to 2.5" SSD and with multiple outs for backup....i think at the time firewire 800 out. Probably great if you are using a different camera instead of RED....since you can only record 720p out of RED on it. So not much of an option for a RED setup in my opinion. We had used it with SI2K recording direct to cinedeck and had RAW 2k out if i recall via SDI......been so long i don't recall. BUt on RED there's no option except 720p out.

But back again to backup and storage, just don't see how it fits in economically to the equation here until SSD comes down in price, but by that time I'll put money down that there will be an entirely different input/output and estata 2 & 3 will be old news.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

RED / CineDeck Extreme / SSD's

RED / CineDeck Extreme / SSD's

Johnny,

You are dead on correct - recording from the REDOne to the CineDeck is very limited - barely worth mentioning. Once EPIC-X is released en masse, that may change to a very limited degree with 1080 vs 720 output available. If anyone really needs 1080 that bad, they can always use a wireless solution like the TerAdek streaming to a MBP. I brought up the CineDeck only to point out that it was using 2.5" SSD media.

The original topic was the viability of the REDMAG 2.5 - keeping it on topic, my preferred SSD media / workflow:
One form of SSD (proprietary RDC) = On camera mags for REDOne and (soon) EPIC-X
The other form of SSD (2.5 SATA) = field backup

Being able to use the 2.5 SSD's with the CDE is merely a bonus.
If the CDE used a different form factor, I would have probably chosen that form factor for my field backups.

Looking at my own wallet, investing in 2 form factors of SSD media instead of 3 influenced the decision.


Slightly off-topic: Where I see the value in the CineDeck Extreme is:
1. Confidence / backup recorder (w/monitoring) when a camera is where you cannot reach it - for example slung under a helicopter or on a jib.
2. Capturing a HD "Switched Master" during a live show. (Switcher HDSDI Output into CDE, cameras still ISO'ed)
3. Better than the KiPro (which I also own) with monitoring, friendly playback menus, standard media and being able to make a client that edits on AVID happier.

While it does have some uses and applications, is it substitute for RED RAW files? No way. I own RED for a reason.

 

[James Brundige]

Not sure what an SD slot is--unless that's the firewire or usb?.....but the small express 34 slot where you can put in a small pcie type adapter and utilize e-stata connection x 2 connections. So i can run from 1.8" REDMAG into macpro and also the estata hot-swap box.

On 15" models, Apple ditched the express 34 for a slot that reads SD cards (common in all but the top end DSLR's). I was hoping there's an adaptor for that slot, but I guess I'll look into the new connection bus. Thunderbolt. Anybody using that yet? Hopefully Red will add that to the Red Station, since it's 12x faster than FW800.