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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Alexa, Red MX & Sony F3 Camera Test Comparison

Jake Bastian said:
Waaaaaaay sharper than that other [thinly veiled reference to RED] camera.
Geez Jim, get your shit together!
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I have to say... that Arri post on their website really surprised me. They have enough going for them not to have to resort to dumb stuff like this.

Jim
 
The image in the link it leads to is taken from an Arri whitepaper which clearly states the the importance of 4K...
 
Jannard said:
Can't wait for someone to do these test that actually knows what they are doing...

Jim
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LOL... Thanks! :-))

Jannard said:
I have to say... that Arri post on their website really surprised me. They have enough going for them not to have to resort to dumb stuff like this.

Jim
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It's kind of strange...

Jannard said:
BTW... who does a resolution test on an Ang. 24-290? Really?

Jim
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Cheers!

Jannard said:
IMHO... the tests that people will want to see in the coming months will be EPIC vs. the Sony F65.

Jim
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I am curios about the Penelope, too.

That said. The Alexa and MX are the ones peole in general can use now. That makes the comparison interesting.

Cheers!

G
 
Jannard said:
I have to say... that Arri post on their website really surprised me. They have enough going for them not to have to resort to dumb stuff like this.

Jim
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You know the saying "If they're shooting at you, you must be doing something right".
 
So far we have been in 10 side by side tests with Alexa that we know about. EPIC is 9 and 1. :-)

Jim
 
Clearly the problem with your cameras Jim is a lack of TLA's. You make the mistake of actually saying stuff instead of making up acronyms to make it look like you're experts.
 
What many of the recent tests suggest is that both Red and Arri's cameras are good enough, there is no clear winner, one can be made better than the other in one respect while trading some other quantity. Which is good for some future competition. So going forward, Red needs to upgrade the production of Epic-M, i.e. Epic-Mom and Pop version :w00t:, before it is late, as others are catching up.

Sincerely,

Joofa
 
Dj Joofa said:
What many of the recent tests suggest is that both Red and Arri's cameras are good enough, there is no clear winner, one can be made better than the other in one respect while trading some other quantity. Which is good for some future competition. So going forward, Red needs to upgrade the production of Epic-M, i.e. Epic-Mom and Pop version :w00t:, before it is late, as others are catching up.

Sincerely,

Joofa
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Sorry to disagree (again). With 4K delivery in the near future... 1080P cameras fall short. Just like shooting a Varicam in the past couple of years.

You can deal with a stop of DR but you can't make 1080P look like 4K.

The cameras that matter to me will be film and the Sony F65.

1080P was a mistake... any way you cut it, slice it or package it. History will show 1080P as the biggest mistake the industry ever knew.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Sorry to disagree (again). With 4K delivery in the near future... 1080P cameras fall short. Just like shooting a Varicam in the past couple of years.

You can deal with a stop of DR but you can't make 1080P look like 4K.

The cameras that matter to me will be film and the Sony F65.

1080P was a mistake... any way you cut it, slice it or package it. History will show 1080P as the biggest mistake the industry ever knew.

Jim
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Completely true....
 
Jannard said:
Sorry to disagree (again). With 4K delivery in the near future... 1080P cameras fall short. Just like shooting a Varicam in the past couple of years.

You can deal with a stop of DR but you can't make 1080P look like 4K.

The cameras that matter to me will be film and the Sony F65.

1080P was a mistake... any way you cut it, slice it or package it. History will show 1080P as the biggest mistake the industry ever knew.

Jim
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Agree to some extent. But are you implying that Arri (or somebody) else is going to stick to a 2K and/or 1080p camera? I don't really know when 4K delivery will be ubiquitous, but by that time isn't it ok to assumt that your competition will have 4K or more available? Didn't Sony already announce an 8K camera? So the reality is that for the time being 2K / 1080p suffices in one way or the other, and by the time it doesn't, because delivery systems are more mature, competition will have 4K or higher cameras.

Of course, you can argue that Red is already future proof to some extent, while competition is trying to catch up to 4K, and so Red has a head start, and that is a fair point. But, we will see how the future pans out.

Sincerely,

Joofa
 
Dj Joofa said:
Agree to some extent. But are you implying that Arri (or somebody) else is going to stick to a 2K and/or 1080p camera? I don't really know when 4K delivery will be ubiquituous, but by that time isn't it ok to assumt that your competition will have 4K or more available? Didn't Sony already announce an 8K camera? So the reality is that for the time being 2K / 1080p suffices in one way or the other, and by the time it doesn't, because delivery systems are more mature, competition will have 4K or higher cameras.

Of course, you can argue that Red is already future proof to some extent, while competition is trying to catch up to 4K, and so has a head start, and that is a fair point. But, we will see how the future pans out

Sincerely,

Joofa
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Sony announced a 4K camera... from an 8Kx2K sensor.

It doesn't matter what "now" is... it matters what the future is. Everything is subject to re-release. I have tried to make that point a hundred times. If you shoot SD or HD... you are not going to re-release in 4K. Period. Pretty easy to understand but apparently hard for some.

So what exactly is your point? My point is that shooting 1080P is a huge mistake. That is why I started RED. I saw this in 2004.

Jim
 
That is exactly why I love Red. And why others hate it...

Jannard said:
So here are just some of the issues I have with this test.

RED is moving. Stay current. I have heard that it is difficult to stay current with RED color space and gamma. Not as difficult as buying new cameras every time something changes. Inside the time that the RED ONE was released until now, Arri has released the D20, D21 and Alexa. If you owned all of them, you spent over $500K. In that same timeframe we got you to spend $6K on a sensor upgrade (on top of your $17,500) and learn a couple of new color spaces and gamma options. Seems like a fair deal to me but only if you pay attention. The price you pay with RED is upgrading your firmware, software... which is N/C. All you have to do is learn the best workflow before posting test results that people believe as gospel.


Jim
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I think no body would deny that 4K has more resolution than 1080p so it is good that Red started an effort for that and deserves heartiest congratulations for that. But, I don't think that future digital cinema will be defined in a narrowly focused 1080p vs. 4K debate. There will be other important innovations. And, I can tell you one right away, some newer methods in color acquisitions - an area Red is quite pedestrian in, as far as I see. (No, fancily-named color spaces don't count :w00t:). I can point a few other areas as my personal projection, but I think color suffices.

So as far as I see Red has won the battle momentarily, but for future, as I said before, we shall see how it pans out.
 
Dj Joofa said:
I think no body would deny that 4K has more resolution than 1080p so it is good that Red started an effort for that and deserves heartiest congratulations for that. But, I don't think that future digital cinema will be defined in a narrowly focused 1080p vs. 4K debate. There will be other important innovations. And, I can tell you one right away, some newer methods in color acquisitions - an area Red is quite pedestrian in, as far as I see. (No, fancily-named color spaces don't count :dita:). I can point a few other areas as my personal projection, but I think color suffices.

So as far as I see Red has won the battle momentarily, but for future, as I said before, we shall see how it pans out.
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Sorry for a third time... RED footage completely matches any other system easily... including the Alexa for color. We have witnessed several side by side tests that lead to RED over Alexa for the highest budget features. You have seen the announcements.

So what exactly are you talking about?

Jim
 
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