Red Drive: To buy or not to buy

[Tim Nolte]

I plan to get a Scarlet Fixed as soon as they'll take my money for one, and I'm trying to decide if it makes sense to jump on the Red Drives now while they're available. The price per gigabyte makes it a very tempting option, but there are some things about which I'm unsure.

1. For what shooting scenarios is a Red Drive best suited? I'm anticipating that to start with I may find more paying work shooting stuff like events, so the longer recording times of a Red Drive would be beneficial. However what I want to make money with is commercials, music videos, and narrative stuff. Does the Red Drive make sense for all these situations?
   
2. Am I totally off my rocker to think a digital cinema camera like Scarlet makes sense for event recording?
   
3. How do people configure the drive when shooting? I was hoping to attach it to the back of a shoulder mount to help counter-balance the camera.
   
4. I've heard hints that things like vibration can be a problem for Red Drives. How big an issue is this?
   
5. The store says the cable is required to connect the drive to Red One. Would I use the same cable to connect to Scarlet? If so, is the extra $50 worth it for the 6 foot cable?
   
6. Will the Scarlet require an additional module to connect to a Red Drive?
   
7. How do I connect the drive to my Mac? I don't see any tech specs or pictures of ports on the store.
   
8. Edit: How big are they? I don't see that information, either.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

 

[Gunleik Groven]

For obvious reasons, not any know how to connet the RedRAID to the Scarlet/Epic...

Vibrations is an issue. Concerts can be bad. Helicopters are a no-no.

It can be worked around (for concerts), but work that out before doing a paid gig.

In honesty I can only see one thing that is better for the drives vs the SSDs, and that is recordingtime, if you need it.

OTOH I wouldn't like to be spotted with a 90% full 640 drive...
That's a high-risk adventure.

Do SSDs if you can.

 

[Laco Gaal]

Honestly, I don't think so that you will be able to record slow motion (3K, 120fps) to HDD.
Also because of this, HDR could be limited on HDD.

This is not official data of course, just me thinking.

 

[ericyoung]

Honestly, I don't think so that you will be able to record slow motion (3K, 120fps) to HDD.
Also because of this, HDR could be limited on HDD.

This is not official data of course, just me thinking.

At the moment you can record 2K 120fps or 3K 50fps to Red Drive on the Red, so no reason to think you can't record the same slow motion to Red Drive on the Scarlet, but yes, 3K 120fps would probably not be possible.

HDRx would be limited, but I believe EasyHDR will be fine if and when Red bring it back.

 

[ericyoung]

Red Drives connect via Firewire800, or Firewire400, or USB2.0 to your computer.

 

[Laco Gaal]

At the moment you can record 2K 120fps or 3K 50fps to Red Drive on the Red, so no reason to think you can't record the same slow motion to Red Drive on the Scarlet, but yes, 3K 120fps would probably not be possible.

Don't forget about the RedCode too, not just fps/frame size!
As for the Epic, as frame rate grows, you have to lower the RedCode.
(of course, 120fps, at 5K, at RedCode 12:1 is still amazing. Actually, no, it's: AMAZING).

 

[Brian Merlen]

SSD

SSD

the HDD price per gb is low, real low compared with any other viable media... i think that is what makes people want to buy them used, despite the vibration issue and their age/reliability. i mean i'd have to buy so many used CF cards to get similiar capacity that it makes the HDD seem like a steal price wise. i suppose i could get both, charge more for gigs that need the CF and use the HDD on the cheap gigs that dont pay well... but man are my cf cards going to collect dust!:violin:

In honesty I can only see one thing that is better for the drives vs the SSDs, and that is recordingtime, if you need it.

OTOH I wouldn't like to be spotted with a 90% full 640 drive...
That's a high-risk adventure.

Do SSDs if you can.

 

[ericyoung]

Don't forget about the RedCode too, not just fps/frame size!
As for the Epic, as frame rate grows, you have to lower the RedCode.
(of course, 120fps, at 5K, at RedCode 12:1 is still amazing. Actually, no, it's: AMAZING).

True, but the OP was about Scarlet Fixed.

 

[George Butterfield]

Thanks in advance for the advice!

Don't do it. Wait until the Scarlet is available. The proper way will be clear by then. You wont lose any money or time etc. by waiting.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Shooting HDD now...

WOuld've loved to shoot SSD. Guess that's it, really...

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I'm in exactly the same boat as Mr. Nolte, and the decision I made, after seeing what used drives trade for, was to jump and buy a new drive from RED while it was still available. It's only a $900 gamble, and I'll get most of that back if I sell it. SSD may be in short supply for a while, this will at least allow long run times - I'll generally be working in pretty remote locations for several days at a time.

I'm also investigating what can be done about upgrading the internal drives, to take the thing from 640GB to 2TB. It looks as though that should be possible, just a few final tweaks to work out.

Others have answered most of your questions, no-one knows for sure yet but I can't believe the cabling for Scarlet with be any different to the R1.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Mike, you should be aware that the firmware on the drives is supposednto be non-standard, which up until now has made them not replaceable by anyone but RED...

 

[Steve Wake]

If you can say "only a $900 gamble" without choking, maybe you could consider it. BUT:

It's already clear the ports on R1 and Scarlet are different (no XLRs for sure). I remember seeing one view of Ted's Scarlet that showed gaff tape over the port area on the bottom. Final configuration may not yet be determined or (hopefully) was only recently determined.

The R1 port for the Red Drive is, AFAIK, a LEMO that carries a eSATA data stream. Don't know if it's eSATA I or II. And don't know if there is more involved. I would be shocked if RED included this port on Scarlet given the limited data stream it's capable of carrying. Yes, legacy CF is included as standard for Scarlet, but that seems to me a concession to price and portability.

If making SSD standard and dropping CF completely would save RED on manufacturing and inventory costs I wish they would take that route. Otherwise, I'll pay the extra to go SSD, try to get by with a small amount of media at first, and hope the price of flash memory continues to drop the way it always has.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

If you can say "only a $900 gamble" without choking, maybe you could consider it. BUT:

It's already clear the ports on R1 and Scarlet are different (no XLRs for sure). I remember seeing one view of Ted's Scarlet that showed gaff tape over the port area on the bottom. Final configuration may not yet be determined or (hopefully) was only recently determined.

The R1 port for the Red Drive is, AFAIK, a LEMO that carries a eSATA data stream. Don't know if it's eSATA I or II. And don't know if there is more involved. I would be shocked if RED included this port on Scarlet given the limited data stream it's capable of carrying. Yes, legacy CF is included as standard for Scarlet, but that seems to me a concession to price and portability.

On that point, the RED Store page for the drive has unambiguous check boxes ticked for support for R1, EPIC, and Scarlet. So it *is* supported; the port will be there.

Mike

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Mike, you should be aware that the firmware on the drives is supposednto be non-standard, which up until now has made them not replaceable by anyone but RED...

I've heard that rumour too. But the real issue, from conversations I've been having, appears to be more a configuration one; getting the RAID controller into the correct mode to set up the new array. As soon as that's cracked it should work; I'm not the only one working on this. Stay tuned!

Mike

 

[Steve Wake]

On that point, the RED Store page for the drive has unambiguous check boxes ticked for support for R1, EPIC, and Scarlet. So it *is* supported; the port will be there.

Mike

In the distant past, when SSD was just a dream, RED said an adapter would be needed to use the RED drive with Scarlet and Epic. This implies no port.

EPIC doesn't have a direct RED Drive Lemo port (not in specs or any picture or description I've seen).

The Pro I/O module has never to my knowledge had a spec for or shown a render with a Red Drive connector.

So maybe the adapter is still planned, but what would it cost, and what would be the demand?

The only unambiguous point about connectivity in the RED store is that a cable is required for R1.

I asked Brent in a separate thread about Scarlet connectivity and never received an answer.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I have seen nothing specific as to how we will connect the drives to Epics or Scarlets either, other the more general "it will be possible to still use old media and batteries" from long time ago.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

In the distant past, when SSD was just a dream, RED said an adapter would be needed to use the RED drive with Scarlet and Epic. This implies no port.

EPIC doesn't have a direct RED Drive Lemo port (not in specs or any picture or description I've seen).

The Pro I/O module has never to my knowledge had a spec for or shown a render with a Red Drive connector.

So maybe the adapter is still planned, but what would it cost, and what would be the demand?

The only unambiguous point about connectivity in the RED store is that a cable is required for R1.

I asked Brent in a separate thread about Scarlet connectivity and never received an answer.

Hmm. You clearly know more than I do. All I can do is point you to the relevant page:

http://www.red.com/store/media/product/red-drive-640gb

Where it says quite clearly in the top right: "Works with EPIC, RED ONE, and Scarlet" (not using those precise words but the boxes are checked). I'd call that unambiguous, personally.

What's the point of checking boxes if the information is at best somewhat misleading?

Hopefully this will be clarified at or before NAB.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Mike

 

[Laco Gaal]

Hmm. You clearly know more than I do. All I can do is point you to the relevant page:

http://www.red.com/store/media/product/red-drive-640gb

Where it says quite clearly in the top right: "Works with EPIC, RED ONE, and Scarlet" (not using those precise words but the boxes are checked). I'd call that unambiguous, personally.
Mike

Well, I think it because the dropped frames, they try to "push" people towards SSD.

anyway, I found this from Stuart English:

Obviously you won't able to record REDCODE 225 to an existing RED-RAM and RED-DRIVE - they are not capable of 225+MBytes/sec.

But one or both of those certainly could record 3K at REDCODE 42.

 

[Stephen Strangways]

Jim Jannard had this to say during a debate about why all new RED media is SSD, and there are no spinning drive options:

We learned that if we get continuous calls about the same problem, it is probably the time to do something different. What is the definition of insanity again? We have spent more money helping people recover footage than we could ever make selling spinning drives...

Jim