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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Proxy Module...

Who said this is no country for old men? Whoever it was, they were confusing time with substance. ( ;
 
Cube seems to sort of be filling the gap this module was aimed at now, especially with their RED proxy recording module supporting remote record triggering and file names. It will also work on current RedOnes and future cameras.

Has someone else filling the gap put Red off developing this module or do they have extra killer RED specific features in mind?


With the RedUser Cube bulk buy finishing today this question is pressing on my mind...
 
I don't think Cube fills this gap at all. It is an entirely different solution which requires a computer setup, it does not record anything. The proxy module Jim is talking about would be able to stream wirelessly but also record directly to CF. I think that is an extremely important distinction between the two. I would like to be able to have proxies without having to use a computer and setup a network. I would like proxies to be integrated in the camera.
 
I can believe that might be useful to some if your only concern is giving take away rushes to Producer & Director at the end of the day but to do so still requires a computer to transfer them onto something to take away (hough I suppose you could give them a stack of CF cards and a laptop with card reader to take away).

The remote triggering of network recording on cube with the proxy module means that you just set up a network share drive and it will all record onto it live whenever the camera is recording. So it streams wirelessly but also records directly to a network drive. That network drive could be setup on an external drive to give to the Producer or director to take away immediately at wrap or be transferred directly from there straight onto an iPad or something. I guess you'd have to be working somewhere remote with real limitations to need to record on camera proxies to onboard CF and the CF part gives a time delay to the availability of those proxy rushes for later review. On a network drive they can be instantly available for browsing, tagging and review to all onset wifi connected devices.

I'd be really intrigued to know what situations you think would really benefit from on camera CF recording over the network version?
If they build it and it has both the options of on board and network recording then it'll be a no brainer - I like more options, but I am short on ideas as to where the CF recording would be a necessity other than up a mountain with a tiny crew and only enough power to use your laptop later for your reviewing session so you don't want to waste that precious power during recording.
 
Quentin_B said:
I can believe that might be useful to some if your only concern is giving take away rushes to Producer & Director at the end of the day but to do so still requires a computer to transfer them onto something to take away (hough I suppose you could give them a stack of CF cards and a laptop with card reader to take away).

The remote triggering of network recording on cube with the proxy module means that you just set up a network share drive and it will all record onto it live whenever the camera is recording. So it streams wirelessly but also records directly to a network drive. That network drive could be setup on an external drive to give to the Producer or director to take away immediately at wrap or be transferred directly from there straight onto an iPad or something. I guess you'd have to be working somewhere remote with real limitations to need to record on camera proxies to onboard CF and the CF part gives a time delay to the availability of those proxy rushes for later review. On a network drive they can be instantly available for browsing, tagging and review to all onset wifi connected devices.

I'd be really intrigued to know what situations you think would really benefit from on camera CF recording over the network version?
If they build it and it has both the options of on board and network recording then it'll be a no brainer - I like more options, but I am short on ideas as to where the CF recording would be a necessity other than up a mountain with a tiny crew and only enough power to use your laptop later for your reviewing session so you don't want to waste that precious power during recording.
Click to expand...

While I'm sure Teradek's solution is great and am considering getting it as well, I'm pretty sure it's not as simple as just turning the camera on and start shooting. Just have a look at some workflow videos posted online. It must be great for studio shoots though. I'm thinking more of situations where you don't have a DIT following you around with his laptop. There is also the question of reliability. I'd rather have a fail-safe onboard solution. And ideally, this module would work with off-the-shelf CF cards which you could then simply be given to the producer at the end of the day.
To summarize, I think there's a notable difference between an integrated solution that you don't have to worry about (just turn on the camera and shoot) and something that requires additional modules, setting up of a (potentially fragile) network, and relying on yet another external recording device. Frankly, if it's to be used just as a proxy recorder, I think it would make more sense to plug something like a nano into the HDSDI outputs.
The cube has other advantages of course, but not that of simplicity.
 
I agree that it is preferable to have a failsafe integrated solution to make things more bulletproof, but being a DIT (these days following in a van with location power, a full tower rocket and digi-lab solution more often than a laptop though) I don't get to see the kinds of situations where the onboard recording might be a better option.

I'm not sure what you would want to use the H264's for other than streaming live as a wireless monitoring solution and providing dailies for review, I'm not sure if you had other uses in mind or not?
I guess an owner operator on more EFP style shoots where there is little other supporting crew (say on docos where there is only say a camera op, sound recordist and director) would like to have those CF cards to hand over for review at the end of the day without worrying about making them whilst you are shooting. This I can see as the major application - not a world I work in but my best guess. Is this what you had in mind?
 
I thought the idea was to stream it wireless over a wi-fi connection via wireless router...which, at least in my experience, have been pretty robust...
 
So if you want to use it for daylies you need to have a audio link to the camera to get audio on the files... so it would be phantastic if this proxy module would have a audio receiver inside, where i can give the audio guys a transmitter that they plug on their preview output...
streaming in a good quality without stucking would be really awsome something like this teradek modules... we could built then a video village with a macbook pro... capturing the stream on a usb harddrive and connecting a bigger display via displayport for playback.... if you need more coverage you place a wifi accesspoint as repeater... no cables anymore....
no need of a bluecine or something else.... no need of HD/SD downconverter for PAL transmitters etc..... the future will bring us a lot of great things.... digital production will get so smooth and comfortable.... simply great, simply RED... :)
 
The more I think about it the more onboard recording of the proxies seems like a good thing.
Currently using the Teradek if you go out of range during recording you (as would be expected) lose the stream and the proxy clip is cut short. This may be improved with future firmware updates but currently once this has happened you have to restart the cube to get automatic proxy recording working again.
With onboard recording you wouldn't have to worry about this if you want the network review facility with al the functionality of the Teradek's network share I'm sure a program to sync files onto a network share when the module is in range could do the job nicely whilst the onboard recording provides a failsafe for the camera going out of range.

One nice thing about the Teradek is the fact that it can be used with any camera (including the RED one) since it only requires SDI or HDMI input depending on the version. The fact that it runs off a standard HD SDI input means that you can also chain it onto the end of a muxed stereo signal from two cameras in a stereo rig - giving stereo proxies. Given the huge popularity already for the Epic in shooting stereo I would hope that some method for stereo proxy recording will be built into the H264 Module, and other future proxy modules but I don't see any facility for it in the designs presented so far.

The one other difficulty that Teradek has shown is when recording varispeed. Currently all proxies are recorded at base project framerate/ camera refresh output. A workaround would involve some way of automatically flagging clips when shooting varispeed so that they can then be transcoded properly once they reach the DIT station and put onto the appropriate location on the network share. Perhaps the RED produced module will actually be able to record the proxies at the higher frame rates directly? If not maybe with an option to set it to create the proxy from the recorded R3D during post record.
 
not sure what is happening with any of the modules and if Japan has a plan in their delay.
I guess without EPIC's shipping the modules have taken a back seat.
I can't wait to pimp my EPIC with module mania :-)
 
Nothing to do with Japan this time.. The proxy module turned corners a bit... a few technology leaps have happened over the last 3 months that warranted a design change.. for the better.
 
Jarred Land said:
Nothing to do with Japan this time.. The proxy module turned corners a bit... a few technology leaps have happened over the last 3 months that warranted a design change.. for the better.
Click to expand...

Mhhhh... Interesting! Can't wait to hear what was added/changed.

Is H.264 still the high-compression flavor of choice?
 
Whats a Proxy module do... Make quicktime proxies... sorry for my naivety.

I'm hoping not to have any modules staking up. I like small. small is great. The camera is amazing small!

For me the EPIC camera is all but perfect, I just want video play back turned on. All my jobs are suffering because this function does not exist. I do shit loads of big action stuff, and quick on board look backs is all we have on fast moving sets.
I had to shoot an ALEXA the other day and a CANON F&$^^$*G 5d and even put the EPIC on the shelf and dragged an a REDONE only because it has play back... It was a sad day having to go backwards just because it has instant play back while we are running around doing big action shots. (red one is not going backwards... but it sort of is when you have an EPIC sitting in front of you)
Running cables out or hanging transmitters off the cameras is literally doing my head in, slowing us down... Running back to a video assist guy after every shot to see if I have the shot is a joke this day an age. Just having to do the whole drag a video assist guy around behind me is slowing me down.

Never thought a function like play back would slow me down so much. I never thought Id have to shoot a 5D over an EPIC just to get instant shot feed back.. (eg Hanging out of a chopper, dangling from a cliff, strapped to a wire rig, running and gunning in a huge event, showing actors instantly what they look like quickly without running back to a video tent....

I'm begging for it on the EPIC. just begging... Hopefully no module to do it either.

Other than that.. THE EPIC is amazing!
 
Mark, I think the original idea of the H.264 proxy module was wireless live streaming to onset monitors, ipads and such. Teradek among others have released similar devices. Don't know if one of those might help in your situation. I know you can stream H.264 to an ipad, but can you record the stream?

http://www.teradek.com/
 
Jarred Land said:
Nothing to do with Japan this time.. The proxy module turned corners a bit... a few technology leaps have happened over the last 3 months that warranted a design change.. for the better.
Click to expand...

Thus one can still hope for a prores/dnxhd module! :-)
 
Jarred Land said:
Nothing to do with Japan this time.. The proxy module turned corners a bit... a few technology leaps have happened over the last 3 months that warranted a design change.. for the better.
Click to expand...

I hope at least part of that is Avid responding to all the bitching by many people--including li'l ol' me--to promote DNxHD as an acquisition proxy format and improve its specs beyond 1080 4:2:2 10-bit.
 
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