Extra $1000 (more or less) for HDRx on Scarlet?

[Danny Lingan]

I hardly think Scarlet will be crippled by not including HDR.

Maybe I should have quoted, but my remark was with regards to some suggesting that HDR be in the s35 and FF Scarlets but not 2/3-16mm format. If every other camera has it but it's withheld from the 2/3 when it could have been put in, it fits my concept of being crippled. Maybe governed or reduced or mitigated or lesser-featured would be better, but I think the idea gets across. I'm open to suggestions.

I hardly think Scarlet will be crippled by not including HDR. Or that RED wouldn't have the undisputed 16 mm digital camera... nothing else is even close to Scarlet as it is.

You sure about that? I agree, but think of all the perceptions out there of people who don't read these forums. There's a lot of less-than-but-good-enough models out there if you think of 3k being reduced to 1080 delivery. There's a lot of AF-100 talk lately. And then their are DSLR rigs with a bigger chip and lens set with rigs that cost up to $10k. And these all have more-easily accessible post options. There are a lot of non-technical film students and professors and end-users who might see Scarlet 16s as interesting choices, but not necessarily must-haves. And do they really want the pain of the whole RAW learning curve?

I bet HDR would be the killer app that would bring a lot of those people over. 18 stops (or whatever it ends up being) is hard to look past. HDR would be the game changer. It'll be "It's digital, but my highlights won't blow out!" If anyone could use the HDR it's students, one-man-bands and run-and-gunners who are tight with light budgets and crew.

And, yeah, if there needs to be a non-hdr and an HDR of each of the 2/3s, that's fine by me. I just think that HDR would be a real world beater in that 16mm segment.

 

[Michael T O'Connor]

I'm not a pro, so the RED is already an expensive proposal for me. If an extra $1k is added, I would be forced to buy a DSLR

I understand however, why many others feel differently.

 

[Lee Saxon]

I think the price to performance ratio of Scarlet (especially the 2/3" Scarlet) goes way down if you add $1000 to the price for HDR. Plus, added development time. I want it now! There's gonna be a Scarlet 2, right? HDR can wait.

Also, I for one won't be able to afford the 2/3" Scarlet I desperately want if it goes up in price.

Maybe on the S35? Seems like $1000 is less of a big deal in that price range.

 

[Michael Althaus]

Save it for Scarlet v2.0 and make the camera available as soon as possible. There's always going to be room for improvement which would delay the camera indefinitely... I think it's time to draw a line and get the camera out as soon as possible, and then start working on the next generation...

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Lets strip out all of the new features and go back to 3k for 3k!!!!

In all fairness, since the "3K for $3K" Scarlet was only a concept, there's no way to tell whether what you consider new features were planned for it. Certainly full-frame 1080p and speed ramping were (according to Ted Schilowitz), as was 100-MBps RedCode (which was removed from the modular system, then later reinstated). And it was supposed to have a 4.8-inch LCD (vs. 2.8 inch on the currently specced kit), dual CF slots (vs. one), and HD-SDI (which now requires an additional module). My point is, there's no telling what the original camera would've had (or lacked) because it obviously was never produced. But, on paper, it was impressive -- in some ways it was superior to the base kit.

That "additional $1,000 (more or less)" raises an interesting point: $1,000 more than what? Last we heard, the fixed-Scarlet kit was $4,750, but given the issues Jim Jannard cited earlier this summer (e.g., possibly needing to line up a new manufacturing partner), we really don't know what current projected price is. For many, especially the more price sensitive, the question is therefore even harder to answer. A $1,000 nonmodular option? It seems to fly in the face of everything Red has tried to do since the redesign. And if it were a module, it would (here I agree with Terry VerHaar for once) probably cost more than a grand. What I think it may be is a trial balloon to gauge reaction to a substantial price increase for Scarlet.

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Its funny that 72 hours ago, no one would have thought of Scarlet fixed as "crippled". If Scarlet has a lower noise floor akin to the new Mysterium X that we're all so very happy about, I really don't see the need for HDRx™ in the first version of it.

Carl may have been facetious when he remarked about going back to 3K for 3K, but I'm inclined to agree with him.

Scarlet was supposed to be the camera for the mass market, or at least Red's idea of a mass market. Add an extra $1.5K to the $4,750 that's been proposed and I see an opportunity for an even lower priced entry level Red that takes its cues from the Flip class. The marching orders for Scarlet changed when the modular Epic was introduced, and I get why. But delaying Scarlet from here on out just lessens its market credibility, IMO.

Even without HDRx, Scarlet is a fantastic concept. Adding SSD and HDRx will be very compelling reasons to get a Scarlet 2.0 and the additional development time will make those features cheaper to implement. We eBay the hell out of our Scarlet 1.0 and buy the 2.0 when it comes out.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

first version, or the second I think this is all the same thing, weather we would pay 1kish for the upgrade, this is another reason why the poll and Reds question should be refined much better. some may be voting no because they think it will cause a delay but if they were to make both scarlet and scarlet 2 (or whatever you wanna call it) they might have voted different, or that you are going to stop production and development on the old scarlet right away and begin again on the HDR version. Then there are others who want a division between them and the lower cameras weather it is s35 or epic. I can't imagine Red scrapping the proposed fixed and cinema scarlets and start over, so if that is the case I see no reason why they shouldn't begin the production of a HDR scarlet as soon as possible (as long as it does not effect scarlet or epic deliveries).

mah people will do what they are going to do but releasing both makes the most sense to me, but not making it would really suck considering my dream camera (for now and the next few years) is only 1k'ish dollars away from having HDR. And knowing that scarlet could have it but having to buy it without it would suck, especially if the DR of the scarlet is not what I'm hoping it will be (it should be great but now the bar has been lifted so much higher).

ah well just my thoughts...again

 

[Martin Oller]

1-2k usd extra for that functionality would actually make me reconsider BUYING a Scarlet in the first place. And yeah, I gave up on the camera some years ago...

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

"HD-SDI (which now requires an additional module)."

perhaps I don't understand your statement or what I'm talking about but I thought HD-SDI is on every brain at the back.

first version, or the second I think this is all the same thing, weather we would pay 1kish for the upgrade, this is another reason why the poll and Reds question should be refined much better. some may be voting no because they think it will cause a delay but if they were to make both scarlet and scarlet 2 (or whatever you wanna call it) they might have voted different, or that you are going to stop production and development on the old scarlet right away and begin again on the HDR version. Then there are others who want a division between them and the lower cameras weather it is s35 or epic. I can't imagine Red scrapping the proposed fixed and cinema scarlets and start over, so if that is the case I see no reason why they shouldn't begin the production of a HDR scarlet as soon as possible (as long as it does not effect scarlet or epic deliveries).

mah people will do what they are going to do but releasing both makes the most sense to me, but not making it would really suck considering my dream camera (for now and the next few years) is only 1k'ish dollars away from having HDR. And knowing that scarlet could have it but having to buy it without it would suck, especially if the DR of the scarlet is not what I'm hoping it will be (it should be great but now the bar has been lifted so much higher).

ah well just my thoughts...again

You can check me on this, but I am 95% sure only EPIC comes with HD-SDI on the brain.

Jay

 

[Kevin Marshall]

"HD-SDI (which now requires an additional module)."

perhaps I don't understand your statement or what I'm talking about but I thought HD-SDI is on every brain at the back.

Last we saw, the Epic models will have HD-SDI on the brain, however the Scarlets will not.

 

[Adrian Edson Dean]

Yes

Yes

I'd pay the price for the extra range. YES!

 

[Tim Nolte]

Extra for HDRx

Extra for HDRx

All other things being equal, I would pay an extra $1000 for HDRx. Like many other posts I've read, my bigger concern is development time. If it means an extra 6 months beyond whatever the current timeline is, it's not worth it to me for the first Scarlet. I really like the suggestion of a module, but that only works if the bottleneck is processing power and not bandwidth. An upgrade option/program or two models would be second choice.

Of course, best of all possibilities is that Deanan et al. discover that the existing design has enough power already!

 

[William Robinette]

No.

If you need this for a particular shot/shoot rent an EPIC for the day, which will work with all your modules.

 

[Tim Hole]

For me personally it is a no-brainer to pay the extra, if it didn't mess too much with the release date. I would easily recoup that loss in those situations where I saved on time and money compensating for not having the HDR mode.

Simples.

 

[J Davis]

... if it didn't mess too much with the release date...

and herein lies the key to the whole situation.

Now who here would want HDRx on a scarlet if it meant a further delay?

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

"HD-SDI (which now requires an additional module)."

perhaps I don't understand your statement or what I'm talking about but I thought HD-SDI is on every brain at the back.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think the Epic brain has HDMI and HD-SDI whereas the Scarlet brain has only HDMI.

 

[Tim Hole]

Also as I mentioned on Scarletuser, in order to take advantage of this mode you would have to also have an SSD module, as CF cards would probably be either pointless or impossible. The point was raised about just having one version but it all depends on how it works. It might be that the EasyHDR™ requires more internal processing then than HDRx which is two threads of the media. The Scarlet is already strong enough for high(er) speeds in raw so it may not be that problematic for the HDRx™ than for the EasyHDR™.

I think though the idea of scarlet holding its price is quantity so isn't the idea of two models counter intuitive to this

 

[Danny Lingan]

No.

If you need this for a particular shot/shoot rent an EPIC for the day, which will work with all your modules.

Of course, the money going to pay rent on an Epic for 4 or 5 days could be better used in getting my always available HDR upgrade. :smiley: And my modules won't include nice 35mm glass. Or larger mattebox. Or filters. Or...

For me personally it is a no-brainer to pay the extra, if it didn't mess too much with the release date. I would easily recoup that loss in those situations where I saved on time and money compensating for not having the HDR mode.

Simples.

Nicely put, Tim. The increase in DR will pay for itself in money, time, lack of frustration and saved shots.

 

[Grant Goss]

No HDRx...Lets just get the camera out, keep the costs down.

K.I.S.S.

 

[Clifford]

What does the ready-to-shoot fixed Scarlet come with now? Do I need SSD for HDRx? How long will the CF card record? What is the battery life now (though I am sure I will want another battery or 2). These are the questions I am have and the additional cost to answer them will come up more than $1000. I am not a pro, just a homevideo joe. Do I still want HDRx? Yes to future-proof my purchase. But it might take longer to buy than the the release of Scarlet itself or after convincing myself to part with $7-8 (for additional battery, SSD (or a few CFs), HDRx etc) or more for the accessories that I would want.