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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zoom F8 vs Sound Devices 744T

Ethan Cooper said:
Have a F8, does what I need & more.

Question: are you guys mounting them or bagging them?
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Definitely needs a bag, I went through a couple options and settled with the Porta Brace AR Z8. Tried the Sachtler SN607 lightweight audio bag small, liked it for the quality, but it didn't have access to the bottom of the F8, was bigger than I need and was a little floppy with without having a mixer in the second compartment. Only other one I was considering was the Orca OR-28, but honestly the Porta Brace is the perfect size and perfect price, just enough for the F8 and two lav RXs, plus I have a AB battery that fits great underneath.

Seriously, this mixer is an incredible value for the price. Sure, no analog limiters, but the headroom on the digital limiter is more than sufficient for 90% of situations. Plus, with the ability to have a safety track, which is on a completely separate preamp, you are pretty much set for those moments when talent decides to go rogue. Would be nice if you could link the two like tascam, where the safety track is 12 db under your primary track, but this could be something easily added with firmware, which Zoom has showed they are willing to do.

The knobs are too small. A certain presidential candidate would do just fine controlling the knobs, but I found it uncomfortable. That was easily fixed with some 3D knobs I bought from efksound-3D for $20 bucks.

The bluetooth is also incredibly handy, especially when I don't have a dedicated sound person. To be able to speed and monitor the levels has been super handy.

We're comparing something that is at least TWICE AS MUCH (if you buy used)! For the money, the Zoom F8 is amazing. Is the Sound Devices better? Yep, it is. But therefore the law of diminishing returns. Only need 4 channels? Get the Zoom F4. But, for 4 more channels, bluetooth and a way better screen, it was a no brainer to spend the extra $300 (and to think I just bought some glorified aluminum from Wooden Camera for my Epic-W and that cost just as much...)
 
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Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
Marc -- Since I am not a sound person, I tend to trust my peers who are sound pros when it comes to these sorts of questions as one brand / product vs another. In this case, all of the sound pros I know swear by Sound Devices and are consistently dismissive about Zoom in general.
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I think however that has a lot to do with brand snobbery / protectionism.

If you dig a bit deeper (such as hang around on the pro forums like jwsoundgroup) then you'll realise basically everyone who has actually purchased a Zoom F8 is singing its praises (especially for its bang for buck), while those who are dismissive of the Zoom F8 are almost exclusively people who have never actually used on themselves.

Undoubtedly the Zoom F8 (and F4) is a massive game changer for the lower end of the market (which includes basically *all* camera people who dabble in sound, i.e. 90% of the people in this thread. We're not dropping $30K+ on a complete sound package after all).
 
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Hiya guys, I have had the Zoom F8 for a while and thought I would give some feedback. If we had a bit more money for audio we would have gotten a Zaxcom Nomad instead, but maybe later.

Plus
First feeling is really positive with the Zoom. I like the interface, the menues, the input. It fits really nice on our Epic brain as well and the recorder has a lot of useful features like being able to record in "hdr".

Minus
- batteries does not last long compared to Sound Devices.
- If you turn it off you lose time code which is not so good.
- Sound devices has better sound quality which should not come as a surprise.

The equipment we use is
- Sanken CS3e shotgun. Attached on an arm on the camera
- Audio Technica BP4025 Stereo Mic. Also on the camera
- Rode Super Softie and Rode mic suspension.
- Zoom F8 attached screwed on the ribs for the tactical top plate. This works great so far.
- Tentacle sync. Im running a tentacle into the Zoom F8, then I have the zoom F8 connected to the Epics sync. Tentacle sync battery lasts 30 hours so now I can turn on/off the Zoom and still be sure that I'm getting secure timecode. Will do some more tests.
- Tentacle sync on our extra camera Canon 1DX Mark2. It just sens audio timecode and has a tiny recorder on for scratch audio which is cool.

I would not get a Sound devices 744 myself for this application because I want more mixer controls. Then I think the 633 or Zaxcom seems more interesting.
After listening on the internet I do think that Sound Devices has better sound quality than Zoom. Sound sounds more pleasant to listen too, however this may be something that you can at least partially correct in post.

All to all the setup feels really cool. I can have timecode on 3 different system, I can easily capture both a shotgun and stereo and connect lavaliers if needed. Everything sits on the camera, but if I need better sound and have more people we can just take off microphones and recorders.
/Andreas
 
David Peterson said:
If you dig a bit deeper (such as hang around on the pro forums like jwsoundgroup) then you'll realise basically everyone who has actually purchased a Zoom F8 is singing its praises (especially for its bang for buck), while those who are dismissive of the Zoom F8 are almost exclusively people who have never actually used on themselves.
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I think the reverse might also be true: people who sing the praises of the Zoom F8 might be well-intentioned people who aren't willing to spend very much money, and have little or no experience with really good pro sound gear. Again, I'm saddened by camera owners who don't have a problem spending $40,000+ on a Red camera (plus a minimum of $10K-$20K on lenses and related gear), but can't be bothered to spend a fraction of that -- say, $5K -- on a decent multitrack recorder, a boom mic, and a couple of wireless mics. You could easily do that with an SD 633, which believe me, is a very, very modest recorder.

I would be just as stymied by somebody who buys a $995 Canon DSLR, says "it shoots 4K," and then goes out and spends $10,000 on sound equipment and insist that they don't need a Red camera because the quality difference is negligible. The key to me is to have reasonable expectations and not try to justify their choice out of ignorance -- aka "Choice-Supportive Bias."

As I often say around here: 70% of getting good audio involves getting the mic close to the actors, and another 20% involves finding a quiet location. The equipment is often the least challenging problem to solve.

BTW, I know a fairly busy local mixer who just had an expensive Sound Devices rig fail, and (for one day) he was able to use a Zoom to get the dialogue recorded adequately. So in this case, it was fine as a backup recorder. As a main recorder for day-in/day-out use... not a good choice. The moment the SD was fixed, he went back to that... but he was glad the Zoom was there. I would have absolutely no problem having one stashed on the truck just in case of Nuclear Disaster. It'd be the sound equivalent of having a $4000 Blackmagic camera in the camera truck in case the Red Helium fails.
 
I got everything hooked up now with timecode and sounds. Works nicely. Will do some tests in the wild with it soon. Timecode pipeline seems to work well with the tentacles->Zoom->Epic. I think that will be a better solution than having the Tentale directly to the Epic.
Mark, currently I have a super softie on the Sanken CS3e. I'm considering to have a normal softie on unless its windy to reduce weight. Will that be enough?
Also I think I will try to put the microphones on the rails, especially when we use the 600mm to move the recorder further away from the glorious Epic Fan. I also thought it would be interesting to experiment with.

Best
/Andreas
 
AndreasOberg said:
Mark, currently I have a super softie on the Sanken CS3e. I'm considering to have a normal softie on unless its windy to reduce weight. Will that be enough?
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The Sanken is actually a pretty good mic for the money, though I lean more towards the Sennheisers. In high winds, nothing but a blimp and a windjammer will help, and even then they're not perfect. In modest winds, a softie can work (as can just a blimp by itself). Indoors, I usually go with a very thin foam cover -- and in fact, I'd advise using a less-directional mic indoors.
 
Marc Wielage said:
The Sanken is actually a pretty good mic for the money, though I lean more towards the Sennheisers. In high winds, nothing but a blimp and a windjammer will help, and even then they're not perfect. In modest winds, a softie can work (as can just a blimp by itself). Indoors, I usually go with a very thin foam cover -- and in fact, I'd advise using a less-directional mic indoors.
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would be nice to see mic and blimp reviews (a new thread maybe?) Another area where price and brand does not tell the whole story. Usinng sennheiser and it is great, but foam and/or hair cover is not always enough and so affordable blimp would be nice. Would also be nice to have recommendation for super directional / short distance mic for shooting on the street.

Interestingn that not one of the responses gives an example ahwere anlaog limmiter made the difference and apparently not all SD have. Anyone owns / uses all of the above can list where thet have had to have analog limiter to get usable take? I have tascam field recorder and the dual level recording comes in very handy sometimes.
 
Mike Finegan said:
...I have tascam field recorder and the dual level recording comes in very handy sometimes...
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The Zoom F4/F8 has this, there is no SD that can pull this off?
 
Eric Santiago said:
The Zoom F4/F8 has this, there is no SD that can pull this off?
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Sure you can: record a final mix with high levels, and record isos with levels -10dB down. It's done every day on all kinds of very high-end sound recorders, including the Aaton Cantar, the Nagra, and the Zaxcom recorders.

Anybody looking for basic sound advice could go over to JWSoundGroup.net, which has had quite a few discussions of equipment and technique for recording location dialogue. Be warned you should read the messages there first before asking, because so much has already been asked before, you'll probably find your question has been answered many times.
 
Mike Finegan said:
would be nice to see mic and blimp reviews (a new thread maybe?) Another area where price and brand does not tell the whole story. Usinng sennheiser and it is great, but foam and/or hair cover is not always enough and so affordable blimp would be nice. Would also be nice to have recommendation for super directional / short distance mic for shooting on the street.
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Rode Blimp v1 was horrible according to reviews?
But I have Rode Blimp v2, which is quite nice for its low price! But I'll upgrade to a higher end one when I can.

For a highly directional mic, check out the Sanken CS3e, it is my favorite for that kind of usage.
 
William Long said:
The 744T is around the same price these days!???? :))
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I have seen 788's for under $3000, which is a pretty shocking price. The 744 is about half that, $1500. (There's one for $1300 up there right now.) As I think I said elsewhere, the advantage with the 744 is that if you drop it onto concrete, there's a better chance it'll still work than a Zoom. Huge difference in construction quality.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I have seen 788's for under $3000, which is a pretty shocking price. The 744 is about half that, $1500. (There's one for $1300 up there right now.) As I think I said elsewhere, the advantage with the 744 is that if you drop it onto concrete, there's a better chance it'll still work than a Zoom. Huge difference in construction quality.
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... I'm not planning on dropping anything! Do you do a lot of work on concrete Marc? :))

I have used the 744T for many years and never had a problem. The 788T is a dream and prices are indeed 'dropping'. (There's that word again!)

What I do know is it won't be a zoom.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I have seen 788's for under $3000, which is a pretty shocking price. The 744 is about half that, $1500. (There's one for $1300 up there right now.) As I think I said elsewhere, the advantage with the 744 is that if you drop it onto concrete, there's a better chance it'll still work than a Zoom. Huge difference in construction quality.
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Well no one will be planning to drop their recorders, and even if you do, your recorder is going to be pretty well protected within your mixing bag.

Plus the F4/F8 are decently tough themselves.

With 744 prices being significantly higher still than say a F4, then it opens up options of say considering a MixPre10T instead.
 
I have been listening to our recordings from Sri Lanka with Zoom F8 and thought I would share our thoughts.
I think the recorder is easy to use and very flexible. It can also attach to the Epic in a very nice way on the side.

Sound:
I'm no recording expert, but I have a background in classical music and I am in general quite sensitive to sound defects.

Our microphones were Sanken CS3e shotgun and Audio Technica BP4045. Basically we saved money on the recorder and stereo mic but got a good shotgun, I actually wanted a Zaxcom instead.

I must say that I'm not impressed with the sound quality, especially from Audio Technica and our stereo mic. Sanken sounds better but still not great which I blame the recorder for.

The sound is clear and there is no noise, that is good but when I listen to the environments they have a harsh, brittle sound that cuts a bit into my ears, especially the higher pitch sounds. It is clear but I do want to turn down the volume on my system and that is not great. I also remember listening to comparison between Sound Devices and Zoom for voice overs and I thought that Zoom had a sharp sound as well. It seems that this sharpness is even stronger for especially brighter animal sounds. I listen mainly on BeyerDynamic DT 770 headphones but also listened at our professional sound studio at work with the same results.

Once again, no expert, but thought I would share. I can upload some files if anyone is curious to either dropbox or maybe soundcloud.
/Andreas
 
I always wanted to buy an Sounddevices 788T because of the preamps, but my collegue said I am nuts and we settled on the F8 ... and I am happy. The first months I used a Sounddevices 302 as Preamp in front of the F8, but then I stopped, because there was barely any audible difference.
And i also dropped the F8 on concrete from 160cm high ... still working!

best wishes and kind regards,
Martin
 
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