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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zeiss CP.2

Justin Marx said:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...Compact-Primes-or-RED-Pro-Primes-for-the-EPIC
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Thanks for the link, but I'm over the CP.2s now. After hearing everything that I have, I'd rather go with the RPPs or RPZs. I may test a few specific CP.2s in the future, but as of now, I think I'll be getting an 18-85mm RPZ.


Peter.G said:
Duclos sells the bridge mount as does Element Technica, Arri, Chroziel, Etc..
http://www.ducloslenses.com/Duclos_Lenses/supports.html

You should shoot with the lens and determine if it's physical characteristics and resolution suit your end distribution needs.

-P
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I'll take a look at the Element Technica, Arri and Chrosziel ones. Duclos' bridge mounts are for 15mm rods. I'm looking for something that'll work on 19mm rods.
 
Brian Iannone said:
Thanks for the link, but I'm over the CP.2s now....
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Best discussion I've read on this is in the chapter "4k+ systems theory basics for motion picture imaging" in the VES Handbook (Okun & Zwerman). Because of digital sampling, I really like the low pass spatial frequency filters of the Zeiss CP .2, this is highly subjective by person though(especially since I thinking shooting fabric allows the viewers to "touch"/connect into the movie). The unfortunate fact though, is you we need multiple glass sets for differing jobs, and the cost of glass sets is significant (i lust every now and then on anamorphic lense sets).
 
One thing about going with a canon mount capable lens/camera is you can supplement lenses from a stills rental facility which is quite a bit easier than renting PL mount lenses from a motion picture rental facility which requires a large insurance policy. I guess you could buy a canon mount separate.
 
I say this every time.

Buy lenses that do the job "you" see yourself needing to accomplish, don't get something that someone tells you is "better" because it might be better for them and not you..

I love the RED lenses and if I didn't need the Canon mount and could afford the weight I might have bought them.. But I needed the mount for my canon shoots, small size for travel around the world, and excellent quality.
They also rent all the time.
And the 21mm some people have been ragging is one of "my" favorite lenses.. Yep, it's a slow 2.9, but it's gorgeous and sharp as heck!

I can change all 5 of my CP2s over from canon mount to PL in 26 minutes, another 10 to check them on my chart..

so I basically bought 5 lenses that equate to 10 workable solutions for so many jobs. They are the Swiss army knife of lenses.

In closing, "they work for me" but they might not for you..

Weigh your options and never buy lenses without doing your own testing..

Glass is for life, cameras come and go.. (or get upgraded)
 
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If you have any questions about the CP2s let me know.. I was one of the first in the US with them and have really grown fond of them.. So have my clients!
 
Given your price range I'd say the 17-50 RPz and an 85mm RPP would be a good combo.
The 18-85 RPZ is sharp and nice but not hand-holdable or steadicam friendly which severely limits your options if this is your only lens.
For the size and money the 17-50 is a great lens and the 85mm RPP is not nearly as big or heavy as it's wide brothers.

Personally I own the Angenieux 16-42 & 30-80 Optimos and do not find T2.8 limiting at all on the Epic. You can also add a Duclos 11-16 down the road, or fill in the rest of the RPPs.

In answer to your fist question though, For a single prime lens I'd find a 28mm T2.1 Zeiss standard speed. It's the same formula as the Ultra and just beautiful ever so slightly wide lens on the Scarlet.
 
Justin Marx said:
If you have any questions about the CP2s let me know.. I was one of the first in the US with them and have really grown fond of them.. So have my clients!
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Thanks much for the offer Justin, I'm going to be cutting my CP2's over to PL for the first time (i'm getting a PL scarlet, I am a canon guy right now) ... the youtube's on how to do do the lense conversion seem fairly obvious ... but I may have to give you a yell when I get the scarlet and do the backfocus.
 
Thank you very much for the advice Evin. =)


Evin Grant said:
In answer to your fist question though, For a single prime lens I'd find a 28mm T2.1 Zeiss standard speed. It's the same formula as the Ultra and just beautiful ever so slightly wide lens on the Scarlet.
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Just wondering, but, in your personal opinion, for most general shooting (i.e. landscapes, city scenes, "stock-style" footage, etc.), do you think 18mm is too wide?
 
Brian Iannone said:
Thank you very much for the advice Evin. =)
Just wondering, but, in your personal opinion, for most general shooting (i.e. landscapes, city scenes, "stock-style" footage, etc.), do you think 18mm is too wide?
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I prefer 20mm, it's the widest lens that still has a natural perspective on people, but sometimes you need 18'mm, sometimes you need 16, 14 and 12mm too.
 
Evin Grant said:
I prefer 20mm, it's the widest lens that still has a natural perspective on people, but sometimes you need 18'mm, sometimes you need 16, 14 and 12mm too.
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Ah, okay. When you say you prefer 20mm, are you referring to the framing on a full-frame sensor? I know that because of the crop factor at 4K on a Scarlet, I have to reconsider the framing on lenses.

I think I may just rent some different lenses between 18 and 25mm. Then I'll be able to see what focal length I like best for what it is I'll be shooting.

Thank you again for the advice. :)
 
I originally wanted to post this here last night, but the thread was accidentally closed. From the Zeiss Compact Primes or RED Pro Primes for the EPIC? thread

Mike Halper said:
Thought I'd post a correction of facts I noticed in this thread and the Zeiss CP.2 thread. A CP.2 set is not $37k. You can get a 6 lens set for as little as $23,400, or if you want the 50 macro, 100, and for some reason the 18, it would be $26,400. 6 Ultra Primes will cost at least $70k, and most likely $75k+ for a more common mix of focal lengths, which is $50k+ more than CP.2's not $25k. A similar RPP set with the 18mm (6 lenses) is $22,800, which is not $10k less than CP.2's.

I currently have a set of cine-modded Zeiss ZF's and have been considering a lens upgrade. For me personally, I've come to the conclusion to probably not upgrade to the CP.2's or the RPP's for the following reasons:

A lot of the CP.2's are slower than the ZF's. All of my ZF's are 1.4, 2, or 2.8. Only the 28 and 35 are as fast as the ZF's. The optical quality is very close, and under many situations not noticeable, if not actually the same. The only thing I'd personally gain by going to the CP.2's is the PL mount (I can adapt and mount to the Canon mount), longer focus throws and in the right direction (hasn't been much of an issue for me so far), equal lengths of lenses that don't extend with focusing (I have a nuns knickers for the matte box to solve that), less breathing (I do a lot of handheld and shoulder mounted shooting, so that's not seen as much). So it doesn't seem like a good $ investment to spend about $16k-$17k it would take to sell my ZF's and get the CP.2's.

RPP's, while a good image, are big and heavy. Part of the benefit of the newer cameras is the smaller size and throwing a big and heavy lens on it takes away that benefit. I was also concerned when I read multiple reviews and comments about the markings on the RPP's not being accurate. The aperture markings on the both sides of the lens generally don't match, and the focal distance markings are generally not very accurate. I think that's a terrible flaw in the lens and even if they are a great value for the money, it's still at $19k or $22,800 (if you get the 18mm) and I would expect any pro lens to have accurate markings. Can that be fixed? Yes, thanks to Duclos Lenses, but there's an expense to that which shouldn't have to be endured on a brand new professional lens.

What I've personally decided is to stick with my ZF's for my Scarlet for now. My dream lens is the Ultra Primes and maybe one day I'll get those. I also like the Cooke Panchros and S4's, but I prefer the Zeiss image and really want Ultra Primes.
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Jeff Kilgroe said:
The optics are not bad, but for a $37~$45K "basic" set of primes that you often see for the CP.2's, I don't feel you're getting a very good value.
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Brian Iannone said:
Ah, okay. When you say you prefer 20mm, are you referring to the framing on a full-frame sensor? I know that because of the crop factor at 4K on a Scarlet, I have to reconsider the framing on lenses.

I think I may just rent some different lenses between 18 and 25mm. Then I'll be able to see what focal length I like best for what it is I'll be shooting.

Thank you again for the advice. :)
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Don't think about the 5d fields of view. It's an exception, not the rule in motion. The 35mm frame and cine field of view is what you have to get used to . Trying to convert will get confusing.
 
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