Zeiss CP.2

[Matt Ryan]

Not that I know this for certain but when I posted about the CP2's and said what were the alternatives regarding something more organic for beauty I was recommended to take a look at the Illumina's. I would add two things one of which back's up Jim's recent lens test. 1.) I much prefer Nikon glass on my 5D. 2.) I think there is so so much more than just whether or not a lens is sharp. Maybe thats the nature of what I shoot - female beauty. I'll give you one modern technology example. I used to shoot a lot of beauty on the Fuji 6x8 camera. That 180mm lens was positively orgasmic. Just a dream. After much deliberation I bought the Canon 45mm tilt-shift (over the 90) and use it with the Canon 2x extender. My God how much nicer is it than Canon's 90mm tilt-shift? My belief is by the bucket load! The Canon 2x extender was never designed for this lens but it works oh so well in such a organic flattering way. Yes it's not so sharp and yes I do understand the argument that you can do it in post but sometimes, just sometimes post is not as good. And as photographers or DOP's we should go back to the belief of honing our craft and creating whatever effect we need to 'in camera'.

Not trying to hijack Brian's thread but would love to hear more feedback about the Illumina's?

I too have been interested in Illumina's. Not too many sets available for testing.

I also agree with you that as a DP you should always shoot your film in camera rather than rely on post. As a student I don't have the funds or means to have my films professionally colored so I have gotten decent at getting my finished look in camera on set. The grabs below are an example.

+1 for the Red 18-85 despite its weight. These are screen grabs uncolored from another student short I shot with the Red One MX and Red 18-85 mostly wide open at 2.9.

I haven't used it yet but I hear nothing but good things about the 17-50 Red Zoom.

 

[Brian Iannone]

Not that I know this for certain but when I posted about the CP2's and said what were the alternatives regarding something more organic for beauty I was recommended to take a look at the Illumina's. I would add two things one of which back's up Jim's recent lens test. 1.) I much prefer Nikon glass on my 5D. 2.) I think there is so so much more than just whether or not a lens is sharp. Maybe thats the nature of what I shoot - female beauty. I'll give you one modern technology example. I used to shoot a lot of beauty on the Fuji 6x8 camera. That 180mm lens was positively orgasmic. Just a dream. After much deliberation I bought the Canon 45mm tilt-shift (over the 90) and use it with the Canon 2x extender. My God how much nicer is it than Canon's 90mm tilt-shift? My belief is by the bucket load! The Canon 2x extender was never designed for this lens but it works oh so well in such a organic flattering way. Yes it's not so sharp and yes I do understand the argument that you can do it in post but sometimes, just sometimes post is not as good. And as photographers or DOP's we should go back to the belief of honing our craft and creating whatever effect we need to 'in camera'.

Interesting perspective. I definitely understand what you mean. I shoot mostly documentary work, so I personally prefer sharper lenses. Even ones that some people say are too sharp!

Not trying to hijack Brian's thread but would love to hear more feedback about the Illumina's?

Feedback on Illumina lenses would be appreciated. The more I and everyone else here can learn about a wide range of lenses, the better.

 

[Matt Ryan]

I see. I know it all comes down to personal preference, but if you were shooting at 4K on Scarlet with its 1.6x crop factor, would you still prefer 35mm lenses, or would you use 21mm ones (which would have an equivalent of 34mm)? A 35mm lens on a Scarlet becomes 56mm, which doesn't really seem wide enough for most shots.

Ive only used the Red One MX with the same crop factor as the Scarlett. Id still choose the 35...

 

[Iain Philpott]

Here is a snap from a shoot last week for Woman & Home mag in the UK. 45mm tilt-shift with Canon's 2x extender. It has an organic quality to it. This is the RAW file massively compressed to JPEG. Nothing done in Photoshop. I want my EPIC to shoot like this. Look at how the blue of her eyes come through? Lenses to me are so much more than either bokeh or sharpness.

 

[Brian Iannone]

Ive only used the Red One MX with the same crop factor as the Scarlett. Id still choose the 35...

So you actually prefer focal lengths in the 56mm range?

 

[Matt Ryan]

So you actually prefer focal lengths in the 56mm range?

hahaha I dont calculate it like that. A 35 is a 35 regardless of the camera. Sure theres the crop factor but the lens is still a 35. It may be just me but the 35 looks decently wide on the MX and I use it a lot. But thats just me.

 

[Iain Philpott]

I too have been interested in Illumina's. Not too many sets available for testing.

I also agree with you that as a DP you should always shoot your film in camera rather than rely on post. As a student I don't have the funds or means to have my films professionally colored so I have gotten decent at getting my finished look in camera on set. The grabs below are an example.

+1 for the Red 18-85 despite its weight. These are screen grabs uncolored from another student short I shot with the Red One MX and Red 18-85 mostly wide open at 2.9.



You are producing some lovely imaging in camera. Thank you for posting.

 

[Matt Ryan]

I too have been interested in Illumina's. Not too many sets available for testing.

I also agree with you that as a DP you should always shoot your film in camera rather than rely on post. As a student I don't have the funds or means to have my films professionally colored so I have gotten decent at getting my finished look in camera on set. The grabs below are an example.

+1 for the Red 18-85 despite its weight. These are screen grabs uncolored from another student short I shot with the Red One MX and Red 18-85 mostly wide open at 2.9.



You are producing some lovely imaging in camera. Thank you for posting.

Thanks Iain!

 

[Brian Iannone]

hahaha I dont calculate it like that. A 35 is a 35 regardless of the camera. Sure theres the crop factor but the lens is still a 35. It may be just me but the 35 looks decently wide on the MX and I use it a lot. But thats just me.

I see.

 

[Martin Whittier]

Brian, I was in the same place as you earlier in the year trying to make some choices regarding lenses. I looked at the CP.2s, the 18-85 Red, and used Zeiss super speeds among others, but I finally landed on the Zeiss ZF.2s with Duclos mods. I found a full set of 5 lenses barely used for $7,000 and I have been extremely happy with them. Biggest thing here is no PL mount, but if you can deal with a Nikon mount, or Nikon to Canon adapted, then you might be pleased. Optically they are nearly identical to the CP2s at a much lower price. And the Duclos mod adds the needed gearing for follow focus and smooth aperture. I used these lens on a Phantom HD Gold at 2K and they looked amazing, better than any other camera being used on that same show. I have a Scarlet-X on order and will be using it with this lens set via F-EF adapter, not my first choice using adapters but I'm very happy with the build quality and image. Just my two cents.

And here is a link just for fun. http://vimeo.com/27103920 Phantom HD Gold w/ Zeiss ZF.2 50mm Macro f2.0 @1,000 fps

 

[Matt Ryan]

Brian, I was in the same place as you earlier in the year trying to make some choices regarding lenses. I looked at the CP.2s, the 18-85 Red, and used Zeiss super speeds among others, but I finally landed on the Zeiss ZF.2s with Duclos mods. I found a full set of 5 lenses barely used for $7,000 and I have been extremely happy with them. Biggest thing here is no PL mount, but if you can deal with a Nikon mount, or Nikon to Canon adapted, then you might be pleased. Optically they are nearly identical to the CP2s at a much lower price. And the Duclos mod adds the needed gearing for follow focus and smooth aperture. I used these lens on a Phantom HD Gold at 2K and they looked amazing, better than any other camera being used on that same show. I have a Scarlet-X on order and will be using it with this lens set via F-EF adapter, not my first choice using adapters but I'm very happy with the build quality and image. Just my two cents.

Also check out http://rplens.com/products.htm

I bought a set of High speed Nikons when I owned the JVC HD200 with P+S Technik Mini35. The lenses were amazingly good and the mod's were excellent. Peter is a really good guy.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

The drawback Of the zf 2 compare to the cp2 is the fact that they change sizes as you focus which can be a little cumbersome with some matteboxes (unless you're using a clipon) but other than that I agree that they are really good for the price!

 

[Brian Iannone]

Hmm... I thought someone in this thread posted a link to a blog article talking about manually putting in focus distance marks on RPPs. I looked at the article quickly when I saw the link earlier today, but I want to go back to it now as it was an excellent article, but I can't find the link... I'm not even sure if it was on this thread or another one now.

Does anyone know of what article I'm referring to? It involved manually engraving focus distance marks on RED's Pro Prime lenses.

 

[M Taylor]

Does anyone know of what article I'm referring to? It involved manually engraving focus distance marks on RED's Pro Prime lenses.

Is this it?

http://matthewduclos.wordpress.com/2010/12/18/rppline/

 

[Brian Iannone]

Is this it?

http://matthewduclos.wordpress.com/2010/12/18/rppline/

Yes, that's it. Thanks! =) Were you the one who posted it earlier?

 

[Nick Morrison]

I Typically the wider lenses in a set are less sharp with the exception of RPP's and higher end glass.

All though in the case of the CP2 21 2.8, I'd be shocked if it wasn't razor sharp: it has the same optics as their 21 2.8 still lens, which some argue is the sharpest wide angle STILL lens ever made.

The 18 is a different story, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little softer, by comparison.

 

[Antoine Fabi]

Yep!

The Zeiss ZF 21mm f2.8 is SCARING sharp

...even wide open.

Antoine

 

[Matt Ryan]

All though in the case of the CP2 21 2.8, I'd be shocked if it wasn't razor sharp: it has the same optics as their 21 2.8 still lens, which some argue is the sharpest wide angle STILL lens ever made.

The 18 is a different story, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little softer, by comparison.

Hi Nick,
I didn't mean every lens was soft, I just know a few of them were including the 18mm. Again it could have just been a poorly maintained set.

 

[Brian Iannone]

Okay everyone, I'm now considering getting the 18-85mm RPZ. Any detailed opinions?

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

I'm going to be purchasing some new lenses soon, and have been looking at Zeiss' CP.2 series. I specifically like their 21mm T/2.9. I'm starting this thread because, basically, I'd like to hear anything you have to say about these lenses. Advantages, disadvantages, suggestions, alternative recommendations, etc.

21mm is a fantastic piece of glass but mainly for Full Frame Photography...