Zaxcom & Raptor Timecode

[Kevin Ostajewski]

Hi,

I am having issues with sending timecode from Raptor to Zaxcom zmt4.

I am using this box:

https://stormcables.com/products/stormboxpro

Is the cable an issue ? (the Zaxcom ZMT4 is 3 pin lemo)

Does anyone have any advice of how to fix this issue ? Thank you guys!

 

[Phil Holland]

You have the correct cable to go into that box from your ZMT4? It's a 5 pin Timecode In/Out.

I haven't used the ZMT4 yet. But like many of these tiny boxes or recorders ensure your TC frame rate matches your project timebase or it will not sync.

 

[Kevin Ostajewski]

You have the correct cable to go into that box from your ZMT4? It's a 5 pin Timecode In/Out.

I haven't used the ZMT4 yet. But like many of these tiny boxes or recorders ensure your TC frame rate matches your project timebase or it will not sync.

From what I am reading (manual) - there is no TC going out at this moment ? Is that true ?

 

[Phil Holland]

From what I am reading (manual) - there is no TC going out at this moment ? Is that true ?

Cameras are not the timecode generator (i.e. they don't feed out, but they do run a clock.). They receive external timecode that you jam to. Your ZMT4 is your generator.

Ideally how it's been done most recently on productions, at least this is my general recommendation. You have a wireless generator and transmit a constant timecode to camera, which completely eliminates any potential opportunity for drift. This became a rather popular way to do things when the UltraSync, Ambient Lockit, and Tentacle Sync stuff came out. The ZMT4 does a few more things than merely transmit timecode, but that is your generator.

 

[Kevin Ostajewski]

Cameras are not the timecode generator (i.e. they don't feed out, but they do run a clock.). They receive external timecode that you jam to. Your ZMT4 is your generator.

Ideally how it's been done most recently on productions, at least this is my general recommendation. You have a wireless generator and transmit a constant timecode to camera, which completely eliminates any potential opportunity for drift. This became a rather popular way to do things when the UltraSync, Ambient Lockit, and Tentacle Sync stuff came out. The ZMT4 does a few more things than merely transmit timecode, but that is your generator.

Thank you for the reply Phil!

I think the issue I'm having is that the cable was wired for Timecode Out.

If I get this cable:

https://www.pinknoise-systems.co.uk...o-timecode-in-cable-for-audio-ltd-a10-tx.html

Will that work if I go from ZMT4 directly to jam timecode to Red Raptor ?

 

[Phil Holland]

Generally a timecode cable is capable of in/out, but the custom cable game is a bit of mixed bag.

I get all my custom stuff done at Trew Audio for years now. I suspect the cable you have posted works, but there is the added variable of wiring in the Stormbox, which could have an issue or not.

Generally what I do is get a straight cable into camera, in the case of Raptor that's the 9-pin EXT cable and then whatever breakout cables I need. The reasons for this are many, but if there's an issue with any item on set the simple straight cable allows me to check for things or have the more nimble setup.

You have two items I'm inexperienced with. The Stormbox and ZMT4. But yes, if your ZMT4 is configured correctly and the Stormbox is working correctly with the appropriate cable it should feed timecode into the camera.

I am UltraSync based over here. Likely grabbing a couple Lockits this year at some point too.

 

[Vicky Marie Marks]

Cameras are not the timecode generator (i.e. they don't feed out, but they do run a clock.).

Huh?

9-PIN 0B ODU EXTENSION PORT PINOUT
pin 2 - Timecode Out Timecode Out – SMPTE 12M


Its suppose to work, it just does not currently work.

but you really would not want to do this anyway since internal timecode support is broken and resets after every power up.

 

[Phil Holland]

Huh?

9-PIN 0B ODU EXTENSION PORT PINOUT
pin 2 - Timecode Out Timecode Out – SMPTE 12M

Its suppose to work, it just does not currently work.

but you really would not want to do this anyway since internal timecode support is broken and resets after every power up.

Actually it works in one specific use case, but in 25+ years I have never seen a camera relied upon to deliver timecode. Likely due to the quality of the clock versus a proper generator or field recorder.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Ideally how it's been done most recently on productions, at least this is my general recommendation. You have a wireless generator and transmit a constant timecode to camera, which completely eliminates any potential opportunity for drift. This became a rather popular way to do things when the UltraSync, Ambient Lockit, and Tentacle Sync stuff came out. The ZMT4 does a few more things than merely transmit timecode, but that is your generator.

That can work, but I think it's dangerous: wireless connections can drop out and get flakey, particularly in areas of high interference or great distance. I think a physical jam-sync box attached to the camera is going to be more reliable.

I would recommend something like a Dekecke JB-1 or the Ambient Lockits as being very reliable and tiny, and can sit on the camera with their own power all day long and provide 100% reliable external timecode. The boxes with genlock are necessary for multiple camera projects where they all have to be stone-cold dead in sync, even if the camera has to be rebooted, drives changed, or it bounces from 24fps to high-speed and then back to 24fps for audio sync.

http://www.denecke.com/Support/Documents/JB-1 Brochure_2018.pdf
https://ambient.de/en/product_custom_cat/timecode-en/

I agree that the wireless methods have potential, but for current episodic TV and features (at least in LA), all I see is lockboxes and Denecke boxes.

 

[Phil Holland]

That can work, but I think it's dangerous: wireless connections can drop out and get flakey, particularly in areas of high interference or great distance. I think a physical jam-sync box attached to the camera is going to be more reliable.

I would recommend something like a Dekecke JB-1 or the Ambient Lockits as being very reliable and tiny, and can sit on the camera with their own power all day long and provide 100% reliable external timecode. The boxes with genlock are necessary for multiple camera projects where they all have to be stone-cold dead in sync, even if the camera has to be rebooted, drives changed, or it bounces from 24fps to high-speed and then back to 24fps for audio sync.

http://www.denecke.com/Support/Documents/JB-1 Brochure_2018.pdf
https://ambient.de/en/product_custom_cat/timecode-en/

I mentioned the Ambient Lockits and this is the workflow. They are wireless.

Mainly because the distance between jamming and unplugging, then jamming again after lunch is what leads to potential drift. Whereas the constant connection via wireless units allows for the same workflow and if it isn't connected it's usually mere moments rather than several hours of potential clock movement. Much like anything though, there's 50 ways to do it. Don't really care how other folks work as long as it works for them.

That is less risky then wirelessly transferring audio from a boom pole IMO. Which has been an explosively popular trend as well.

More or less we have units on the recorder transmitting signal, then any camera or device that needs to receive TC gets their own unit to receive. These devices are small, very small. And the charge lasts generally for over 18-30 hours. I usually keep a couple extra just in case somebody doesn't do the busy work of charging at wrap. In practice on multicamera shoots, you power up, TC goes green, it gets confirmed, then you you don't have to think of it much unless TC isn't green. Shouldn't really have an issue staying there.

I went with the UltraSync from formerly Timecode Systems, now Atomos long ago due to them also wirelessly being able to Genlock and deliver TC, which nothing else does.

 

[Alex Zeder]

Just to add another option, a single Lockit can feed two cams through a Y-cable when they are closer together, e.g. for 3D SBS or a long and a wide in the same place.

 

[Vicky Marie Marks]

That can work, but I think it's dangerous: wireless connections can drop out and get flakey,

I don't think you understand how these work. Its not like a wireless microphone constantly transmitting, the "wireless" is just a single jam sync, replacing a physical cable plug which saves the sound guy ripping the boxes off the camera at lunch/break which saves a ton of time and annoyance. Its not flakey, either it jams or it does not.

I went with the UltraSync from formerly Timecode Systems, .

+1 on the UltraSync for genlock support and a real display so you quickly know its working or not, just don't like they promised software and seemed to abandon that.

only problem is genlock doesn't work correctly on V-Raptor