Your Anamorphic Workflow?? Frame/resolution choice, etc

[Craig Lees]

Hi Richard,

I'm in Southampton 5 days out of 7 each week so South West too & my Mum lives near Salisbury which is not that far a train ride from Bristol (& I love Bristol anyway, friendliest people ever!). Would love to conduct some fast Olivia scope lens action on the new helium sensor using available lighting.

One wuestion, will Olivia work on cheaper fast modern stills glass like Sigma Arts? That might be an interesting place to approach rather than uber expensive Arri MP's?

By the by, LEAF MF backs were well ahead of their time, bit like RED actually... ; )

Having a constant focus point on fast sharp MP's is surely a good option with producers / directors re: shooting anamorphic with Olivia. I shoot my anamorphic Lomo's at T4 minimum on my Epic Dragon @800ISO, which is fine, though I take a bit of extra time lighting for it (which obviously pleases everyone no end ; )). But with 4000ISO Helium, potentially a lot less.

Yet T1.4 Olivia Scope @ ISO4000 is very interesting potentially. LED ribbon batt-powered DIY China ball run & gun minimum / natural lighting for scope? Surely producers will chill-out somewhat on the lens weight & "complexity" issues of shooting anamorphic with this potential setup?!? I often rig my 50mm RoundFront to a Ronin with Epic Dtagon & full wireless setup etc & I'm the poor soul who has to operate the darn thing so I don't always understand their grumblings.

Anyhoo, Epic-w will arrive in 2-3 weeks time so I'd be up for shooting some tests between Salisbury & Bristol when you get a good few hours spare one day after then, midweek potentially?

I have a feeling Olivia is going to be a great offering in these current times where so many things are being shot anamorphically. Everyone is seemingly loving the look right now.

Cheers!

Craig Lees
ED & SX UK
Fd SSC & Lomo Anamorphic Lens Sets

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

@Bjorn and @Satsuki I get where you're coming from. Though I'd be interested to know how you;d feel about a system that did just 'work' without collimation issues. Operators would simply set their prime to infinity and do all focusing on the anamorph.

I guess I remain skeptical that a dual-lens system can work without any collimation or alignment issues. Even the best high-end single-lens systems can have problems in this regard (note the alignment issues of Panavision's re-built C Series glass on 'Star Wars Ep.7'). My experience with anamorphic dual-lens systems is limited to the rehoused Iscorama that I own, so you may have already solved these problems with your design. But here's what I would like to see in order to feel comfortable using it in a professional setting:

A mechanical lock for the taking lens focus ring. Could be as simple as an engaged lens motor, but preferably would be something more simple and elegant. A loose focus ring on the taking lens is like a loose back-focus screw on an ENG lens. It will get bumped and shots will be ruined at some point, guaranteed. The nightmare scenario is when it is off by a hair and no one notices for several days. You can't really fix soft focus in post (though many still try). It's worth noting that the infinity witness mark on any given taking lens may not be where the best infinity focus actually is when used with the adapter. Ideally, each taking lens should be tested and marked in prep.

A breech-lock system with locating pin for mating the taking lenses and anamorphic adapter. Basically, make alignment as simple and relatively foolproof as adding a PL doubler to a zoom lens. It should take no more time to swap lenses than it does to go from a large zoom to a prime, hopefully less time. This is a huge time-killer on set with the Iscorama dual-lens system, even if you leave the adapter on the rods via lens support.

The optics in this unit are designed to work with lenses from 28mm up to 135mm on 8k helium / 6k dragon or 24mm upwards on normal s35mm. or 35mm-40mm on 8K VV.. - the optics have been designed (corrected for CA, smearing, etc) for primes as fast as master primes.

This is a very impressive engineering feat, to be sure. However, I think that any production that can afford to rent a set of Master Primes would almost certainly choose to rent a set of Master Anamorphics instead of adding a scope adapter to their spherical set, no matter how well-made. If only for the mechanical and ergonomic benefits. Productions with these types of budgets don't often go for untested workflows unless there is some unique benefit to be gained that can be marketed to the ultimate consumer of said product, like shooting on IMAX 15-perf or 65mm Ultra Panavision format. I could be wrong about this, but I think your clients will more often want to use stills lenses that they already own as their taking lens. I think the best use case for your adapter would be in combination with vintage Cooke Speed Panchros or Zeiss Super Speeds (which based on my Iscorama tests only require the large anamorphic optics on focal lengths of 50mm and below). That would be very cool.

So a preston or RT motor can be left permanently installed to the focus gear on olivia scope and aligned without even needing to be touched. - there is a static auxiliary rail mount on the side of the anamorphic specifically for ff motor fitment so the ff motor fitment doesnt hinder sliding of the anamorphic back and fourth for prime changes.

That is pretty neat - I would suggest perhaps designing a very small, horizontal-style, Heden/Preston compatible digital motor like the old analog Heden M26T that frequently comes attached to large zoom lenses for use with Microforce zoom controls. Could use the same elliptical ring mount, which would significantly cut down on weight and rigging complexity and keep the added weight over the top of the lens instead of off to the side.

Is the need to slide the anamorphic forward on the 19mm rails to change your master primes enough of a problem to deter you from achieving clean t1.3 anamorphic footage from the full sensor area of a red camera? If those specs are mouth watering, in what instances would this performance be desired enough to force you to work around the inherent weight of the lens (which is way heavier than any of the lightweight options).

It's not so much the need to slide the adapter in/out to change lenses, that is pretty trivial. But it would have to be quick change and breech-lock simple for alignment. Also, I think we often tend to get worked up about specs in theory, but in practice ergonomics and good mechanics often end up contributing to better pictures. Maximizing some aspect of spec in a visible way on-screen tends to require a significant level of craft which most users do not possess. Exhibit A would be large format film photography and the traditional photo-chemical printing skills to make the most out of the format. If you want to look at what design purely for spec without consideration for ergonomics looks like, have a gander at the early 90s Zeiss/Isco Arriscope lenses: http://tinyurl.com/arriscope. No idea what they were thinking there...

I'm of the belief that heavy weight setups still have a place - for instance, some people still feel it's worthwhile carrying around 1000ft magazines of 35mm film.

For sure - there is something to be said for choosing equipment in order to impose a style on a project. A fully-built studio camera with a 24-290 Optimo on a dolly will have a different feel than the same camera stripped-down for handheld with a small prime lens. As long as this remains a conscious choice on the part of the artist and not a spec imposed by the manufacturer, I'm in full sympathy with you there.

I'm pretty sure that if RED cameras were 15kg beasts most of the films we'd see from red shooters would have more of the genuine Hollywood aesthetic since users would be forced to work around weight.

On this point I would tend to disagree - style comes from within. Artists choose the tools that fit their style, not the other way around. Give Ansel Adams a point-and-shoot and he would probably put it on a tripod. Give Janusz Kaminski a Master Prime and an 8k Epic-W - he would probably net the back of the lens, splash water droplets on the front element, and find a way to diffuse the resolution down to 2k. Give Robert Richardson a 5000 ISO native camera and he would still most likely order multiple 20k tungsten fresnels for a key light. That's why I think the goal of the equipment manufacturer should be to listen to what artists want out of a product and then enable them to create in their own style. When it comes down to serving as wide of a market as possible it becomes difficult to ignore overall trends in the industry, even if they run counter to one's own personal tastes. But that's just my opinion, of course.

 

[Richard Gale Optics]

Thanks again Satsuki.

I've taken all of you comments on board - just to confirm - this new anamorphic has its alignment fixed here to be perfectly horizontal. alignment is dictated by the 19mm rails so as long as the camera optical centre meets the 19mm rail standard and the camera is aligned axially you;re good to go. literally all that is required is for the prime to remain at infinity. The join between the anamorphic and the prime is not by means of screw or bayonet but instead the prime just slides into a rigid donut which provides the light seal and a safety stop to prevent prime lens making contact with rear element of the rear element of OLIVIA SCOPE. donuts will be lens diameter specific. so assuming you;re shooting on Master primes you'd select a 114mm donut. if shooting super speeds you'd select an 80mm donut. ultras, 95mm.. etc. The donuts change over in under a minute.

To clarify the isocrama was the inspiration of this lens - I own a 36 and a 54 - both single coated. so it was through looking at the limitations of this lens (delicate, slow to set up, and mainly limited focal length capability) that the design came about. We wanted to deliver something that offers the image quality of the 'rama, with pleasing flare and character. leaving a degree of distortion and breathing, but eradicating things like CA and other unpleasing optical imperfections. the f1.4 on 43mm image circles was the challenge.

Here's how it renders images when used with a leica summicron-R 35mm/2 on full frame (A7Sii). This is pretty much exactly the fov/dof a 25mm master prime + olivia scope will deliver on s35mm..

https://vimeo.com/187577938

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

Footage looks great, Richard. I could see that being a nice complement to the Iscorama for wider focal lengths. It would be nice if the lens could be supported by either Studio 15mm or 19mm systems. Most of the rental houses in LA are still on the Studio 15mm standard and not changing any time soon. Also, if the lens support foot could be unscrewed to make the lens smaller when put away in its case, that would be nice.

Do you have photos and specs of the lens itself that you could share? It would be good to know what matte boxes and other AKS will fit and if 6.6x6.6 filters will be needed with your lens.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

https://vimeo.com/187577938

This is interesting! I love the mix between the amount of flair and sharpness.

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

P.S. One genre of production in which I could see myself using your lens regularly is in interviews. The usual budget would allow for it, and since you are staring at a fixed background for quite a long time I think it's sensible to try and make it look as visually appealing as possible (without being too distracting of course).

Now, since most interviews shoot with two cameras, you need at least two anamorphots. Before, this meant renting a set of scope lenses. But since I already own an Iscorama, I would be very interested to see how well the two lenses match up, Oliviascope on the wide lens and Iscorama on the long lens. Currently, I'm able to just use a 35mm f2.8 Contax Zeiss MMJ on a Red Epic MX 5K sensor in a cropped resolution of 3432x2400 (1.43:1). Anything outside of that portholes badly, so the Oliviascope would be quite helpful to me in this regard.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Richard do you have any footy with this thing together with the trumps?

Me thinking that using the trump with a 2x oval and then this in front would give a 2:40 image with even more anamorphic DOF than 2x anas. As the combo of the two would be like 3X ana. or doc would be 3 times as high as wide no? First 2 in the trump then that times 1.5.

Would look smashing I bet.


I'm sold if you got it working so it's a one focus ring and just one setup and no fiddling around.

Whats a bit weird with red bridge plates is that they don't use any kind of centering screws so we don't really know if camera is looking straight forward along the rails, which is a shame if you ask me, this digital age and all and then the camera is just bolted fixed with two bolts that are not conical in the heads or anything. So to use this I think it would be important to fix the red base plate, make the holes cone shaped and machine some bolts for it. So everything becomes somewhat straight.

 

[Richie Allen]

this explains most of it
https://vimeo.com/188529011
cheers

 

[Richie Allen]

For those that are interested Richard Gale posted this. It shows the Oliviascope on a sony, but its interesting, I very much love the character of this adapter.

https://vimeo.com/198515152