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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

WTB and discuss: OConner 1030, Miller Arrow 55 or similar - head comparison thoughts?

Aaron Schnobrich

Aaron Schnobrich

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Anything for sale? - I'll be purchasing in the next day or two.


Looking to purchase a used 100mm head for run and gun work that will hold my MX during lighter configurations. I will transfer this setup to my X when the time comes. Working off Manfrotto 536 carbon fiber sticks during field work.

Thoughts on these configurations? What about Vinten? PM or email aa (at) aaronschnobrich (dot) com with heads for sale.

Thanks!
 
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I love the 1030HDS with Carbon Sticks.

Steve Gibby and Others swear by the Arrow 55. (which I also like but found heavier and bigger than the 1030 HDS)
 
O conner is the best by far. They are more expensive but you will never regret the purchase. They are silky smooth an wonderful with a long lens and a slow pan.
 
One thing about the HDS that I don't particularly like is the Tilt +60° / -60°.

The OConner 1030HD and Miller 55 both offer Tilt +90° / -90° which at times I find critical.
 
I also prefer the Arrow 55, I'll explain why

I didn't love the 25L legs that I had, and the 1030 head although small, seemed quite heavy to me.

I have the heavy duty carbon fiber legs with the 55, which I like a lot more, and the head seems lighter, although the sticks were heavier, and much more sturdy. I've also owned the 2060 w/hd sticks, and what I was comparing the lighter heads too. The 55/ leg combo just felt better
 
Julio Quintana said:
You are contradicting popular industry opinion so some specific examples would be helpful.
Click to expand...


Which industry - narrative cinema or EFP? In narrative cinema O'Connor rules. But narrative cinema represents but a small percentage of the overall motion media industry - in terms of number of yearly productions and number of workers the EFP industry dwarfs narrative cinema. Then there is ENG, which is a huge part of the motion media industry. Since it first shipped Red One has obviously been used for narrative cinema, but has also been used extensively for non-hardlined EFP production.

Now with Epic and Scarlet being true DSMC cameras there are three distinct portions of the imaging industry using these new cameras - cine, EFP (non-hardlined and hardlined), and still photographers. Cine people will probably mostly be sticking with O'Connor (see my take on that below). But EFP shooters have traditionally used tons of Sachtler, Vinten, Miller, and Cartoni. Still photographers traditionally use lighter weight ball heads and lightweight CF sticks. Thus an umbrella statement about "popular industry opinion" applied to all of the divisions of the imaging industry simply doesn't work.

O'Connor makes great heads - I've owned and used a lot of O'Connor over the years. But in my opinion peer pressure, unions, young people who want to impress, and cine veterans who have their equipment "comfort zone" all have a lot to do with O'Connor dominating tripod use in cine-style production.

Once you get to the top level of heads, all brands are good, so a choice is largely personal preference. I've had great results from O'Connor, Vinten, Sachtler, and Miller.

I was the one who first used a Miller 55 head with a Red One camera - on August 31, 2007. Since then all my heads have been Miller 55. They're strong and durable, have excellent pan and tilt head action, and are surprisingly light (6.8 pounds) for the loads they'll support. With the Miller 55 head I use two different types of sticks - the Sprinter II, 2-stage CF, mid spreader sticks, and the Solo 1505 3-stage spreaderless CF sticks. The Solo/55 head combo only weighs 13.8 pounds - a cakewalk to carry anywhere.

A ton of the guys here who have bought Miller 55 heads have done so directly or indirectly because of my complimentary posts here on Red User about the head since August 2007. I have no connection whatsoever to Miller, and never have. I just really like their heads. The Miller heads are significantly less expensive than O'Connor, Sachtler, and Vinter - and yet IMO the Miller heads have the best performance to price ratio in this industry.

End notes:
When we first got Epic M8 in early February Ketch took my Miller recommendation and bought a Miller Compass 25 head for use on the Epic American Tour and for permanent use. Since then he has thanked me many times for that recommendation. He loves the head, which he mounted on his Gitzo CF spreaderless sticks, creating a light mobile tripod package with excellent head action. I'll be getting a Miller Compass 25 of my own shortly. For real lightweight mobile hybrid and EFP head loads with Epic and Scarlet the Miller 55 may be overkill. I'll use the Miller Compass 25, then for the heavier head loads with Epic and Scarlet I'll break out the Miller 55. I have already used our Epic M8 on my Miller 55 many times, with several lenses including a Ruby 14-24, Red 17-50, and a stock Canon FD 150-600 - all with great results.

O'Connor is excellent - but there are many other excellent options out there for supporting Red cameras - and Miller is one of them.
 
I also bought a 55 way back when we were talking about a group buy I think. I've never regretted that decision. It has been around the world with me in the last 3 years . I use it constantly with my red, with dslr and now with cameras like the f3. I have rented a 2575 for studio shoots but for day to day work the 55 is great. I think that it'll actually be a perfect head for the epic. The thing that really stands out with miller is the service department. The turnaround is really fast and the service price reasonable, just something to consider when you are making a large purchase.
 
I just bought a new Miller Compass 25 and the solo carbon fibre legs for my F3 and Epic X. They are stunningly good, better than everything else i tried. I even put my R1 with 300mm on and it held surprisingly well. Maxed counterbalance but plenty of friction left, I would be happy to use it for with the R1 when by my own...and I have a 150mm DS60 for large productions. The Miller 55 is a great head and Oconners are fantastic as well...they are better but no where near the price difference better IMO. As everyone else has said, spend what you can afford but all the above work brilliantly with pros and cons as talked about.
 
Steve Gibby said:
Which industry - narrative cinema or EFP? In narrative cinema O'Connor rules. But narrative cinema represents but a small percentage of the overall motion media industry...

The Miller heads are significantly less expensive than O'Connor, Sachtler, and Vinter - and yet IMO the Miller heads have the best performance to price ratio in this industry.
Click to expand...

Steve, you have infinitely more experience than me in EFP production (and probably most other kinds of production), but as you know there is a difference between saying a certain product is the best, and saying it is the best for the price.

You have always maintained that the Miller 55 is the best head for the money. In fact, I have been seriously contemplating buying the Miller based almost exclusively on your recommendations. But I rarely hear anybody in any segment of the industry say that it is objectively a better head than an O'Connor 1030. Which is why I asked Jan to clarify his statement.

You have written several long posts in which you feel compelled to justify your particular setup (Miller head, still lenses, no follow focus or mattebox). This time your post felt like a lecture aimed at me specifically, and I'm not totally clear what triggered it.
 
Julio,

Sorry if my post seemed like a lecture aimed at you personally. It was aimed at any assumption by thread readers that cine work is the absolute center of the production universe. Your saying that Jan's opinion was "contradicting popular industry opinion" simply elicited my question of "Which industry?", followed by my observations on the variety of head choices in the overall imaging industry. Obviously each division of imaging industry has its traditions and preferences in equipment.

I take the time to write long posts to give others some insight into what I've learned in 30+ years of field production, and nearly four years of field production now with Red cameras - including nearly four months now with Epic. My posts rarely coincide with mainstream cine dogma and choices. I learned cine style shooting decades ago, then by choice polarized over into EFP work.

Back to the Miller 55. To be clear, I consider it to be every bit as good a head as any 100mm bowl O'Connor head I've ever used. Why? Its very well built, can take a beating in the field and keep working as it should, the pan and tilt head action is spot-on, its lightweight for what it supports, and its cost is significantly below that of comparable O'Connor, Sachtler, and Vinten offerings.

Don't assume that my head loads are always light to medium, or that I don't on occasion use big heavy cine setups on my Miller 55 heads. I've attached two shots of a 58 pound head load (R1, Optimo 12x, MB, etc.) Red One setup I used for four days of shooting pro surfing on Oahu. The load was above the rating for the Miller 55 head - but it handled it with ease - and the pan and tilt were glass smooth. You'll see something unusual for my setups in those pics - a matte box. The Optimo 12x has to be used with one. But you won't see a follow focus - it was much quicker in following action for me to manually adjust zoom and focus on the fly directly with the gear rings. The Miller 55 head in those pics is the older Arrow HD. The newer Miller 55 heads are even better.

I've used the Miller 55 head with Red One and Epic camera loads that have ranged from 16 pounds to 58 pounds - and head performance has been consistently excellent throughout that range. The O'Connor 1030 HD supports a maximum of 30 pounds. The O'Connor 1030HDS supports a maximum load of 41 pounds. With O'Connor you have to go to a 2060 or 2065 in order to support what the Miller 55 supports - and those cost way more than a Miller 55.

The proof is in the testing - and the mobile work me and my crews do in the genres of wildlife, sports, music, nature, travel, and documentaries is as demanding of field production work as you'll find. For that kind of work, getting super smooth shots while tracking high speed people, animals, and objects in tight framings requires great head performance - and the Miller 55 delivers just that.

Is the Miller 55 every bit as good a head as the mid-sized O'Connor and Sachtler heads? In my opinion - definitely yes. Does the Miller 55 cost less? Yes, it does. In view of those two factors is it a smart buy for someone looking for a good head? Yes definitely...

No offense was aimed at you Julio. I simply describe equipment performance as me and my crews experience it. Anyone is free to take it or leave it...
 

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Happy to help Julio - and again sorry if you felt I was pointing a finger at you. That was definitely not my intention. I'm just trying to give members here an alternative perspective on equipment...
 
Another vote for the Miller Arrow 55 here. I use it with the Miller HD carbon sticks and it's a wonderful combo. IMO, the only advantage that the O'Connor heads have is the continuously adjustable drag. The Miller 55 handles a larger payload than the O'Connor 1030 and just about as much as the 1030HDs. It's lighter than the 1030 heads and has a full +/-90 degree tilt range that the HDS does not. With the HDS, you would need a secondary tilt plate to hit 90 degrees. The build quality is solid.

I've been meaning to pick up a Miller Compass 25 head for use with smaller EPIC configurations, but haven't done so. I already own the Solo carbon legs and they're great for being mobile, will pair even better with the Compass head.

I have personally owned the 1030HDs and I share ownership in a 2575. Have also rented a 2060 and 2060HD on occasion.. Still love the Miller 55.

...Don't know of any for sale. :-(
 
I will say this. While I have liked the performance of my Miller 55 it has been a bit of a maintenance nightmare. It arrived with a sheared pin in the pan mechanism and has been in for service three times in 15 months. It has worked maybe 70 days in that period. The CF sticks arrived with one of the extension joints permanently fused. They explained that the adhesive used to attach the locking mechanism off-gases and on about 5% of the sticks it glues the entire joint completely. If this is a common problem, why would there not be a QC check at the factory before sending them out? All they have to do is test that the leg can be extended. Maybe I just got one made on a Friday, but I have been very disappointed in its quality. When not in for repair tho, it works great.
 
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