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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Would you buy a Monstro now?

T

Timothy Jones

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I’m considering a used Monstro . I know there are a lot of other options now, but with the low prices now available it is very tempting to me. It seems like a lot of camera for the money. Downsides?
 
I've noticed the prices coming down on those used Monstro's too, and also started to wonder about it.

For me, the only downside with the Monstro 8K VV itself was/is also it's main upside, the larger sensor size, requiring the use of lenses with larger than Super-35 coverage to shoot at the full 8K without vignetting. Hence my preference for the 8K Helium sensor. But that's just me and my very specific past and present preferences/choices.

Apart from the potential downsides that come with buying any second-hand good, or any second-hand camera that's out of production, the downsides for any particular individual would depend on what they're currently shooting with and what they'd want to do with the Monstro.

If you're already using a DSMC2 camera, it would be a lot easier and affordable to slot a Monstro brain into your workflow than if you had to buy a complete Monstro kit and learn how to use it effectively (and potentially find out it wasn't really what you want or need).

I've always thought of the Monstro as a Dragon on steroids, same pixel size, just more of them, with some tweaks to help with the low-light performance. In that regard it's a definite upgrade from the 6K Dragon that preceded it as the RED flagship camera (and which is itself still a great camera imo). But at the same time, it's still in that same DSMC2 ball-park compared to the DSMC3 cameras that came after it.

Which, I guess, is another potential downside - getting arguably the best DSMC2 camera and one of the best camera's ever made, only to find yourself looking at the DSMC3 range and thinking maybe the money would have been better spent going towards one of those.

About that. Imo the DSMC3 range of camera's are overall the best camera's RED has made, but there are still some things that didn't transfer over that you can only get with the older DSMC2 camera's - interchangeable OLPF's, interchangeable lens mounts instead of adapters, wavelet instead of DCT compression, a bunch of user-interface and firmware features, among other things.

So, again, the way I look at it is, if DSMC3 just isn't on the cards (and you don't want to wait to see what happens in a couple of years with RED/Nikon) and you want to make use of the full Monstro 8K VV sized sensor, and even more so if you already have DSMC2 accessories, getting hold of a Monstro brain at the prices seen lately makes a lot of sense. You could even look at it like getting one for the old upgrade program prices they used to offer (albeit used, not new).

And yes, there are other 8K and 8K+ options out there now, but for me personally, beside DSMC3, I still haven't seen an alternative I'd choose over the Monstro (and the Helium) and the RED R3D image-quality and workflow.
 
Timothy Jones said:
I’m considering a used Monstro . I know there are a lot of other options now, but with the low prices now available it is very tempting to me. It seems like a lot of camera for the money. Downsides?
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I think the rolling shutter is pretty big downside on the Monstro. It's not terrible, but 16.4ms readout isn't that fast
 
Looking at some of the projects that have filmed on the Monstro, I don't think you would ever have to worry about much, it's a really great camera. I've been eyeing the used ones too but with the Blackmagic URSA Cine 12K and 17K around the corner, I'm not leaping on anything else.
 
Monstro has a lot of features other new (Red) cameras dont have like

Exchangeable Olpf (IR…)
Frame summing for really long exposure timelapses


Rolling shutter is not so bad. I would either not use a rolling shutter camera instead of dismissing it for some insignificantly lower RS.
I love to shoot with strobe light with my Komodo-X. And was stunned by the 120million $ film from Coppola having a lot of split frame due to rolling shutter and the use of flashes.
 
Patrick. Creamsource has just added a feature in their Vortex features so you can strobe and not split the shutter! I have used it on Phantom shoots but it will work with Monstro! https://knowledge.creamsource.com/syncing-to-cameras

I always grab our monstro instead of the raptor unless I need the frame rates!

I think the rolling shutter is pretty big downside on the Monstro. It's not terrible, but 16.4ms readout isn't that fast
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That is the worst case... and so often I find I am shooting with far less vertical height (either 2.4.1 @ 8k or 7k or 6k) and it is proportionally faster!

FWIW I did not rate the Helium at all. Clever Niche cameras sold to people who it didn't work for. Helium turned a few great cinematographers I know completely off Red.
 
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Michael Lindsay said:
Patrick. Creamsource has just added a feature in their Vortex features so you can strobe and not split the shutter! I have used it on Phantom shoots but it will work with Monstro! https://knowledge.creamsource.com/syncing-to-cameras

I always grab our monstro instead of the raptor unless I need the frame rates!


That is the worst case... and so often I find I am shooting with far less vertical height (either 2.4.1 @ 8k or 7k or 6k) and it is proportionally faster!

FWIW I did not rate the Helium at all. Clever Niche cameras sold to people who it didn't work for. Helium turned a few great cinematographers I know completely off Red.
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Does the Monstro have a different sensor than the Helium? I purchased the Helium years ago and wasn't impressed with the way it performed.
 
Monstro and Helium are completely, completely different. They are both 8K, but Helium is S35+. So it packs LOTS of very small pixels into a small(er) sensor. Monstro is a VERY LARGE sensor, and packs lots of NORMAL sized pixels onto a very large sensor. It has a large format feel, which is great. Its larger than Vista Vision, technically.
 
Definitely , obviously at a good price. You can shoot a gorgeous, big screen, high budget blockbuster with it. It has resolution , dynamic range, proven workflow, great color science, and decent low light. It's a camera that could literally be shooting every sort of content for the next 10 or so years.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Monstro and Helium are completely, completely different. They are both 8K, but Helium is S35+. So it packs LOTS of very small pixels into a small(er) sensor. Monstro is a VERY LARGE sensor, and packs lots of NORMAL sized pixels onto a very large sensor. It has a large format feel, which is great. Its larger than Vista Vision, technically.
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Can you use Full Frame glass or does it require VV glass?
 
chris alstrin said:
Can you use Full Frame glass or does it require VV glass?
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These are essentially the same size (though the aspect ratio of vistavision historically is a little different). So yes, lenses designed for full frame should cover.
 
Stephen Franchek said:
I think the rolling shutter is pretty big downside on the Monstro. It's not terrible, but 16.4ms readout isn't that fast
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I feel like global vs rolling shutter has become too much of a big deal amongst individuals who will not be shooting helicopter blades anytime soon. They really marketed that and made people aware of it so much that now it’s a big deal when it was just selling point many companies are doing this now. Adding a feature no one originally cared about, then introducing a higher ticketed item
 
How about reliability? Seems a bit risky to invest into dsmc2 right now.
 
DSMC2 is very reliable, have had much less problems (literally none over the years) with that generation over the previous, and even DSMC3. I still shoot on monstros and heliums weekly.
Only thing to consider is how much longer Red would continue to support repairs in the future. Eventually they’d stop, but seeing how many is still out there I’m sure it won’t change for a while. But I know that is what would change people’s minds about keeping them.
Still, amazing images and very reliable cameras overall! And still surpassing some of today’s cameras!
 
Drew Thomas said:
How about reliability? Seems a bit risky to invest into dsmc2 right now.
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You have no clue, dude. People often blame their tools, but their lack of knowledge, skill and understanding how to use those tools is astounding. In the meantime, folks like David Fincher and others create masterpieces with the same tools that you criticize.
 
Neil Abeynayake said:
You have no clue, dude. People often blame their tools, but their lack of knowledge, skill and understanding how to use those tools is astounding. In the meantime, folks like David Fincher and others create masterpieces with the same tools that you criticize.
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Yes, all of the great movies of the past have been shot with the tools of the past. But that doesn't mean they couldn't be even better with the tools we have now and will have in the future. Why even shoot color when Chaplin made monochrome masterpieces??

And not to forget, media and repair options are fading out over time...
 
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