Working with children in film

[alexwhitmer]

When folks read my scripts with roles for children, one thing I get again and again is - ‘Kids don’t talk like that’, or ‘Isn’t she/he a little mature for her/his age’?

I have only one answer: Treat them like idiots, and sure enough, you will have idiots.

Over the years I have noticed many a filmmaker have a deep fear of kids. They are like little aliens, and the filmmaker has no idea what to do or say. ‘What if I make them cry’? Hell, I’ve seen a lot of adults cry, and storm off the set and throw hissy fits and threaten lawsuits, but to date I have never seen a child pull a Christian Bale tirade – though I must admit, it would be fun to watch! Hands down, every adult there would be backing up with visions of Carrie. Oh shit!

I have always found that if you engage a child in real conversation, not goo goo crap, they are right there with you, and can have a lot of interesting things to say and add – and even drive the conversation into really cool directions.

Due to this ignorance and fear of working with children, and lack of directors experienced at/comfortable with - well, directing them - there are too few great roles for children, and yet they bring such a wonderful layer and element to film. The few Oscar/GG nominated kids certainly were not in dumbed-down roles.

I have found this fear somewhat true of working with the elderly as well, and hence the overriding inventory of films falls within a ‘comfort-zone’ age range 18 to 60 – ish. Not all, just most. Yes, I know there is a niche market in teen gore, and some do tremendously well at the BO, but I would argue they are plot-driven films, not character driven, and those we just don’t see.

I could be wrong.

We also don’t see many adolescents in film. The raging hormones of puberty make them terrifying at best, and may be why child stars vanish from the screen until everything finds its place.

But, sadly, what we do see ...

... is an abundance of short films with 16-year-old 'actors' playing seasoned detectives and drug lords, and the 'mascara-for-a-mustache' corporate executive. Stop!!

Long story short, don’t fear working with kids (ages 5 to 12), and if you do work with them, don’t relegate them to ridiculously stupid roles or Hallmark-washed sainthood.

Childhood is as dark as any other point along the path of life. Children get sick, they get burned, they die, they lose loved ones, they get confused, run away, hate their siblings, get in with the wrong people, etc. Exploring that doesn’t need to be so horrifying.

Children have an enormous amount to offer film, and I would argue, can even play a role with more purity and honesty.

Take a chance. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Sarah C.]

I like photographing kids... Much more fun and inspiring than most adults!

~s

 

[Jay Voutour]

Alex, after reading this, here are the first three things that I thought:

1. Thread title is misleading. I thought it was going to be another joke thread about the Avatar 2 script. Not cool.

2. Brain-train: Gummo. Larry Clark. Thirteen. Catherine Hardwicke. Twilight. *shudder*

3. You spelled 'despair' wrong in your profile (shows up under your avatar).

Thanks for the sound advice, as usual. Even though I tend to agree that kids are almost always more 'with it' than we realize, I still usually try to write older to avoid all of the hassles of working with kids/parents.
________
The Championship By Lexus

 

[alexwhitmer]

1. Thread title is misleading. I thought it was going to be another joke thread about the Avatar 2 script. Not cool.

2. Brain-train: Gummo. Larry Clark. Thirteen. Catherine Hardwicke. Twilight. *shudder*

3. You spelled 'despair' wrong in your profile (shows up under your avatar).

Thanks for the sound advice, as usual. Even though I tend to agree that kids are almost always more 'with it' than we realize, I still usually try to write older to avoid all of the hassles of working with kids/parents.

1) Missed the jokes about the Avatar script. Haven't seen the film yet either. I always wait until the frenzy is over. No intention to mislead - but since it came off that way, is there a way to change the thread title?

2) Some good titles. Yes, they exist, just too few in my opinion. When done well, they can be great films/stories.

3) Oops. How embarrassing is that?

What hassles are you referring to? I know there is the stage mom who thinks their baby is too precious for words. Some countries have rules about number of hours worked - I'm not aware of others.

EDIT: Saw the Avatar thread. Not cool?

a

 

[alexwhitmer]

I like photographing kids... Much more fun and inspiring than most adults!

~s

Agree. They seem a natural in front of the lens.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I think the challenge is finding a child who has the acting talent. There aren't a lot of "dakota fannings" out there.

Then again there aren't necessarily a lot of talented adult actors out there either...

I think a lot of film makers are just afraid they won't be able to get a great performance out of someone without the experience and practice of a seasoned professional.

 

[James T Mather]

I couldn't agree more with your observations - too much fealty to "what we assume we should do" principles of screenwriting (A type of stylization I suppose that one auto-adopts - like making cowboys squinty frontier men as opposed to effeminate fops) .

As evidenced by every parent inevitably aghast at some revelation, Kids are pretty clued in to the more complex nuances of life - I certainly was, as were my fiends (perhaps it's an adult syndrome to retroactively dumb them down - maybe brought on by parenthood I suppose. An emotional urge to maintain the innocence of childhood?)

Ps: A great site you've got there - love your film choices (except Cold Mountain....but hey, In light of your other choices, maybe I'll revisit and reconsider).

Best

James

 

[Jay Voutour]

EDIT: Saw the Avatar thread. Not cool?

The "Not cool" bit was a poorly delivered joke - as in I thought this was going to be another pointless yet hilarious thread about Avatar 2 and I was disappointed that it wasn't.

2) Some good titles. Yes, they exist, just too few in my opinion. When done well, they can be great films/stories.

Actually, I think I'm the only person I know who enjoyed Gummo (it has been a while since I saw it though). To clarify, my *shudder* was for Twilight.

What hassles are you referring to? I know there is the stage mom who thinks their baby is too precious for words. Some countries have rules about number of hours worked - I'm not aware of others.

Well, I've only worked with teens (14+) on non-union micro-budgets (shorts, mocks), but I can attest that all of the drama that can happen in high school/college can happen on set. Some examples:

Cast members arguing/fighting all of the time.
Cast members refusing to work for whatever reason.
Cast members not showing up, on time or at all.
Cast members not being prepared (i.e. having no idea what we're shooting for the day).
Cast members showing up intoxicated.
Cast members showing up with ten of their "closest" (and hungriest) friends.
Meddling/overbearing parents (understandable in a 'no contract/no money' situation).

Granted these aren't professional gigs in the strictest sense, and I might be a little steadfast in my work ethic, but is it a little too much to expect some form of professionalism from the ones who want to eventually get paid to do this?

What do you think about working with child/teen actors in a no-budget environment? Any advice (besides 'don't do it')?
________
Nature's natural collective care. inc.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

worst thing ever! I dont have patience for kids on set...
there eyes find the camera every 3 seconds

 

[Kim Frank]

I did a musicvideo with five 9-12 year old.
I just treated them like adults and they liked that.
Only thing I changed in my style of directing, was to go and give directions to every one individually, so the others couldn't hear my advice.
I took them serious and they did some serious work.
Shot the whole clip in 4 hours (longer they weren't allowed) and had some Spaghetti with them. Was one of my easiest shoots ever...

 

[alexwhitmer]

I think the challenge is finding a child who has the acting talent. There aren't a lot of "dakota fannings" out there.

Then again there aren't necessarily a lot of talented adult actors out there either...

I think a lot of film makers are just afraid they won't be able to get a great performance out of someone without the experience and practice of a seasoned professional.

It's a good point, and I bet one that is often considered. However, my experience is that kids (not all) have some kind of natural comfort in front of the lens. Inhibitions come later.

These two kids had never acted before this (no, it's not a shameless plug!!)

http://alexwhitmer.wordpress.com/my-films-chasing-kangaroos/


The director never talked down to them - speaking to everyone with the same tone, and as professionals.

 

[Felix van Oost]

Being a child myself, I have to agree with Kim said. A few years ago when I was 10-12, I remember that we like being treated as adults and it makes us feel more important and noticed. If you ignore us all the time we feel like we're an inconvinience and won't deliver our best. There's a bunch of other things - if you look angry and are shouting at people we can get scared and feel intimidated by you and again, not perform well. You can't expect kids to perform exactly like adults and not make mistakes. But you don't have to talk to us like we're stupid and be patronizing.

Jay, it's unfortunate that you had to work with those kinds of kids. That is plain disrespect they're showing and they're probably following the reasoning that "Since we're not getting paid, you can't tell us what to do". Only a small minority of teens think and behave like that, and they sort of spoil it for the rest.

 

[alexwhitmer]

Kids are pretty clued in to the more complex nuances of life

Yes they are. Recognizing that and drawing it out is the director's challenge.

I do agree that kids do get stifled by the 'grown-ups' around them. What parent wants their kids to be smarter than them?!!

 

[alexwhitmer]

What do you think about working with child/teen actors in a no-budget environment? Any advice (besides 'don't do it')?

I say do it. Pizza and patience will buy you a lot of raw talent and enthusiasm.

Not to sound like a snot, but it really comes down to the attitude of the director. If you treat them in a condescending manner, or as anything less than equals with everyone else on set, then disaster looms.

This is true for all the actors, not just kids. Shower a really cute actress with extra attention, and the others will react accordingly - as they should. Not be as firm with a 'friend' as with others, and these others will react accordingly, and as they should.

By kids, I mean ages 5 to 12. Teens bring different issues - one being that they are quasi-independent. If they are showing up late, drunk, or with a train of friends and a truckload of attitude, then something went terribly wrong in the audition process.

a

 

[Kim Frank]

Here's the Clip I was talking about

http://www.vimeo.com/2750808

I forgot to make clear, it was a "no" budget Video.
All the kids got was a coke and some Spaghetti and they enjoyed it.

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

Ive just recently finished a film with a mostly teenage cast (8-17) . I found them great to work with. They were enthusiastic and brought a lot of energy and fun to the set. They were focussed when working and did a top job of their roles. Like any role it has a lot to do with the casting in the first place.
Joe

 

[David Rasberry]

I have not worked with kids in film, but have directed them in stage productions. Kids under 12 are natural fantasy factories and often can immerse themselves in a character with an ease that few adults actors master without much study and practice. Engage their imagination, treat them fairly as equals and they can do some amazing things.

PS: Cast carefully!

 

[Felix K.]

In Germany I always feel that there is less proficiancy in the casting department regarding kids. Some productions end up fine, because they were lucky with their cast, most productions differ hugely from American standards.
It is true that kids are natural actors. But you can make them very self-conscious in front of the camera if you are not careful, I think.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I spend a lot of time around kids, in addition two my own two. I love working with kids, both on and off camera. As others have pointed out, kids appreciate it when adults treat them seriously. Let them know that it's serious work and give them good instructions with lots of reassurance along the way. Right from the start, you need them to perceive you as their teacher or coach. Let them know they are the ones who are working and you are their to guide them through it.

Zakaree does have a valid complaint. Many kids do have a fixation with the camera so it does take extra coaching and patience at times and some kids take to all this very naturally and others do not.

For me, the worst part about working with kids is their parents. Sometimes it's hard to keep mom or dad away or out of sight. Many kids are more self-conscious or timid when their parents are around. It also gets frustrating when trying to work with a kid and mom or dad keeps trying to butt in and "help".

I'm planning to shoot a feature early next year that will have a little girl as the lead. I'm hoping to cast my own daughter, if she is up for it.

 

[Bill Anderson]

But when it works, it really works. Kids can add a fresh dimension
to many films, even adult oriented ones : The Others, and The Fall.
Great kid performances. Both DVD's have pretty decent "making of" segments.
Off the top of my PC: The Eye of God; The Reflecting Skin; In America;
The Butcher Boy; Gummo; Kids; Paranoid Park; Ivan's Childhood;
Freeze Die Come To Life .....