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Working as a freelance DP, how to get started?

M

Matt W.

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This isn't entirely germane to Red in particularly, particularly since it will be some years until I can afford a Red camera, but I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for how to get started as a freelance DP in LA.

In the past I've been hired almost exclusively for unpaid local work (some paid work) and in general I've had to bring my own lights or use almost entirely natural light, which sucks for me since I'm a lighting person. So I want to include lights (and camera, currently a dSLR with full lens kit) in my day rate, but then I'm worried about insurance if my gear breaks.

I also don't know how to deliver footage that's not on tapes. I can't just give out free hard drives and DVDs won't store prores-sized files.

I'm thinking:

dSLR camera kit (with full set of zoom and prime lenses, filters, etc.)
Tripod, handheld stabilizer, glidecam
Arri frensel kit and assorted soft boxes
kinoflo 4 bank
1.2k (magnetic) hmi
c-stands, flags, reflectors, gels, expendables, etc.

$100 a day for just camera, $150 a day for camera and lights (insurance required). Could I possibly manage to get that much in LA? My resume and reel are pretty strong but I have no connections there. Where should I turn to try to get established? I'm working on getting a website, business cards, etc. all set up and worked out. So long as I can pull in maybe $15,000 a year (and grow after that) I'll be okay, I think, and I'm willing to do odd jobs and PA work to rake in the rest. I can live off rice and beans and figure I'll be working so much no time for a night life.
 
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I'm not from a wealthy family and I've been working my hardest at this for the past decade, saving up money for equipment and finding whatever gigs are available (community access in high school, then at college, where I graduated from one of the best film studies programs in the nation top of my class, now locally). It's taken a decade of working minimum wage jobs to save up for this equipment; I'd appreciate no snide remarks.
 
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Do you have a car? How much money do you have? Do you have a present job? How old are you? Do you live in LA now?
 
25, going to get a car soon, have basically no money whatsoever beyond that. I've shot a few features ($200,000 level, mostly) and they've been distributed and gotten play on cable, but that's not paying the bills. Had to move back with parents to save up for the move.

I'm hoping to go to film school some day, but I figure I need to improve my resume in the mean time.
 
A hundred a day? Really? I pay my photo assistant 300 a day. I have no idea what the market is like in LA, but if you have that education and a bit of experience I expect you should be able to do a little better than you think.

Best of luck!
 
Maybe I'll ask for $250 (with all that gear) and bargain down, or $100 with just the camera, or minimum wage for PA or grip work? I don't own all of it yet, anyway (still saving up for a four bank), and I need money to pay for it. But if people are charging $100/day with a Red kit, I can't compete with that no matter my experience (others have MFAs in film; I just have a BA in film studies since my parents wanted me to get a "liberal arts education"). And I'd rather do camera work for cheap than bag groceries, which I've done for half my life on-and-off.

Blew my money on student films at college. Now I either have to sell my computer or large format camera (which I am very emotionally attached to) to move out. Choices.

Edit: And how about contracts and stuff? And how do I distribute footage? I'm not buying every client a 1TB hard drive and backup for free.
 
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low balling your self just keeps you in the low ball type of work... shoot for free until you develop some really good looking stuff and then pitch that as your body of work, along with a price tag that people can take seriously..

as a producer, I would NOT hire a DP charging 250 a day...I would be scared my work would look like bad wedding videography..


also.. buy the camera to improve your skills.. not as a ploy to get work..

When i shoot.. its on different systems that i dont own
 
I can't afford to work for free very long, although I get what you're saying. I don't see how free is any better than $100/day, though. Obviously I would want to increase that over time. But I'll skip buying the extra gear I can't afford. Maybe I'll just start out ACing for a while. I really want to learn some higher production value lighting techniques so I can market myself on a higher level as soon as possible.

Already put a reel together (start at 2:50 at this link) but it's all on hvx and dvx. I want to make my work more competitive so I need a 1080p system. But most people who want to hire me free won't rent lights, so I figure I need to buy my own to get better footage (I do most of my own gaffing) or rent the lights myself on top of working free--not going to happen. Every gig I've done for free has turned out cheap looking, no one takes it seriously, none of the grips know how to set up lights, there's no gaffer or operators, no set design, I bring most of my own lights, etc.

And how do you market yourself? One can't just give business cards out to everyone one meets, but there are tons of good DPs out there so how do you get noticed?
 
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First off, it takes about $2000 - $3000 to move to LA, that includes money for food/gas until you get work, putting down first months rent and security deposit, and not being left with $0. Unless you have a job before you get here, but that's pretty difficult.

Secondly, $100/day is going to be roughly minimum wage (12hr day, $8/hr), so that number is really low. However, I've worked for $100 a day many times to get started, but I bring only a few tools for that price. I would rent your equipment for at least $100/day, and then work out a deal for yourself. I'd look at craigslist to see who is posting what for rent/day rate for different equipment to see what you're looking at. You could also post there looking for jobs. There are also websites like Mandy.com that have some paying gigs, although its a lot of free jobs on there.

Thirdly, clients pay for or provide expendables. That is not a part of your rental, you leave with everything you brought or you are reimbursed for it. As far as delivery, they can either purchase a hard drive for you to use, or they provide you with one they already have. You might want to provide a laptop or some means of downloading so they can walk away with their footage at the end of the day, but again, that's part of the equipment they rent from you.

Finally, you're probably going to have to figure out how to pay the bills until you get established, probably with some other kind of job. Rental houses, production companies, or waiting tables etc. are all options because it's going to be hard to find enough work to get going at first. You said you need to make $15,000 a year, but at $100/day that means you have to work 150 days out of the year, and that's a lot. Remember there are a ton of people here just like you looking for work. I'd say trying to work at least one paid weekend a month is a pretty good start until you make some good contacts. But it takes time to make good contacts.

The only danger with working another job in the mean time is staying motivated to work on the weekends or when you're free. I have a lot of friends who are stuck in their temp jobs because the money is consistent and they aren't making any contacts doing that. That's the thing you have to avoid, which is why working at a rental house or production company is great if you can find a job, because they will be people you will want to know eventually.

Another note, your education is not as much value here as it should be, mostly people will want to see what you've done more than where you've studied. I don't think I've gotten a single job with a resume, mostly a reel or an interview. Luckily it sounds like you aren't doing too badly in that regard.

Hope that helps, if you have any more questions just ask.

Tim
 
Thanks, that's really helpful. I can get a couple thousand dollars together fast, just need to sell off a bunch of stuff and do some work locally. Not so worried about that.

How about working as an AC or grip until I get my game up to speed? Is it possible to do that without joining a union? I'd gladly work at a rental house temporarily but being on set means much faster progress. I have some contacts who are working as DPs; maybe I will ring them up.
 
I usually rent out my equipment for about the same as a rental house or a little less just to give them a reason to hire me. For HD dslr's look at the rates that samys camera or calumet charges, pix as well. I think it's around $150 - $200 per day just for the body. Don't skimp on your rate, very few people will take you seriously if you go to low.
 
Thanks for the feedback, I'm going to save up a few thousand, get some experience and connections as a grip or AC if possible and then start out asking at least $200 with kit. I only ended up with a dSLR because I thought it would be fun to own one but then I realized I owned a full enough kit to rent it out and so why not try. I'll play it a little more by ear.

Zakaree Sandberg said:
i second the whole film school thing.. such a waste of time in this business.. NO ONE cares.

its better to just jump in the game and make your own contacts
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll think seriously about this before I choose to go (if I can even get in). I'm going to wait and see what happens but won't let not having gone to film school hold me back. Going to get started as soon as I can afford to move out.
 
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Do you have gigs lined up? Can you do them with rentals?

What are you going to do with your gear when it isn't being used on gigs? Can you fill the time with personal projects?
 
where are you living right now? If you are really interested in making some money fast, especially when living at home then shoot me an email peteosinski@gmail.com

Im in the process of carrying out this plan for saving money right now and its a pretty good one but for privacy reasons I dont really feel comfortable posting it on a forum

oh and by the way I am going to be suggesting a specific source of employment...nothing that I gain anything from...I can understand how my post may seem like an invite to a get rich quick scam but its not. Its more of a "here is a possible source of good income that I can use to save up the money I need to meet my goals in a reasonable amount of time" type thing.
 
I just think moving to LA and trying to work for $100/day as a DP with a DSLR is flat-out not a reasonable expectation.

No one will take you seriously. You need to re-set these goals, otherwise you are setting yourself up for misery and, most likely, failure.

Better options would be - bag groceries in LA or take another job in LA, save a little money, shoot when you can, learn to charge what you're worth and what the market will support, and do everything you possibly can to work on real sets, where you can work like a dog and prove yourself, starting at the bottom and working your way up. You won't be shooting right away, but you'll learn what it takes to become a shooter and the level you will be required to achieve to operate.

Or - Stay in your own smaller market and try to build a commercial clientele. Build yourself a great reel that shows real initiative and a work ethic. Get your reel in front of as many potential employers and clients as you possibly can. Start charging more money, as you gain additional confidence and experience. You will learn to value your efforts, in a way that you don't, currently. That will help you save for the move and help you to professionalize. You'll probably still have to fight your way onto jobs on larger sets, starting at the bottom, but you'll do it from a place where you are able to value yourself realistically, as a working professional.

It will happen more slowly, over time, but the experience you gain working with real commercial clients will be much more valuable than film school. And will teach you how to work in real professional environments, among other professionals.

Clarify your goals. Do you want to be a DP? Or do you want to work for $100/day. Because those two phrases don't really belong in the same sentence. At $100/day, you're a shooter. And a beginner, at that. Not a DP. You either need to elevate your rates or lower your title to something more representative of what you intend to do at these price points.

Hope this helps.
 
Matt, there are a couple of pieces of advice I can offer you.

1. Believe in yourself. It all starts there. Don't let the tools dictate who you are. In other words, if you are given an HVX, a photo light and a reflector, find interesting ways to use it. This will make you stronger in the end. The most important thing is to keep working at it, refine your skills, and eventually your body of work will be your calling card.
2. People skills. It's one of the most important skills you can have. If you are able to network and know how to interact with people this will go a long way. That's why it's important to believe in yourself because it builds confidence (not the same as cockiness) so when you are in a room with people with hiring power you are able to get them to like you and give you a shot. Talent is a big part of the equation, but people skills is at least half the battle.
3. Don't underestimate your value, even at this stage of your career. If you take a gig because you feel it will help take you to the next level, make sure to find a dollar figure that makes sense for you, i.e. you can take a discount but make sure you have money to live on. My small business administrator was very adamant about this. You have to establish the true value of what your worth in the particular market you're in, and there are a number of factors involved in figuring that out, but be careful about being down with the bottomfeeders. It's sometimes very tough to escape that. I can't tell you what you're worth, but if I had to guess, it would be more than $100/day.
4. LA is a nice place if you are in this industry, but consider all of your options. Are there other markets around the country where you might have an easier time breaking in? Commercials are filmed all around the country. There may be easier markets to get into initially and then you can always move to LA when the time is right. It's certainly not the only place to get started. Consider working your way up in the union. Maybe you can start out as an AC.

Also, consider that the economy is still recovering. Things will probably get better, and more opportunities will arise. Stay positive, work hard, and meet lots of people. Make a positive impression with people and you will get called back, and referrals will start to happen.
 
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I just feel anything over $100/day (more with gear) is overvaluing my abilities. I charge less than that to bag groceries and I'd much rather be on set than bagging groceries. Granted, it's easier to find work bagging groceries.

Here's my reel (hvx and dvx) from the past couple years. I've improved and improved my equipment since I shot most of this:

http://home.comcast.net/~mwauhkonen/reel.mov

I'm in a tricky position because (not to brag) I feel it's better than most reels from people in the $100/day price range. But at the same time, I wouldn't hire myself for any price when I compare this to other stuff that's out there. I feel like if I offer a low price, I can guarantee a fair return on that investment and build positive connections without ripping people off. But the gigs I do for free are often run by cheap people, and then I have to bring my own gear, and then I want to charge more, especially since it often gets damaged and I lose money (and so I had to move back home and have been stuck here for a while). It's tricky.

I think I'm going to go back to school or if I can't get in save up to join a union and work my way up as a grip. I just can't bring myself to spend another year cashiering to save up those union dues. Not sure what to do. I've been living in a little pond market for a while, though, and LA's the place once I have the skills to support myself. If I knew I could make a living as a PA I'd do that but I hear it's gotten extremely competitive, so I figured this was the best way to make money with the skills I have. Maybe I'll just work my ass off and PA until I can join a union, then from there start again as a DP. Whatever, so long as I'm working in film I will be happy!
 
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Shoot a documentary about yourself and your struggles trying to get a job as a $100/day DoP.
 
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