Wooden system vs Zacuto Studio Baseplate for the Scarlet?

[Les C.]

I was pretty much set on purchasing the Zacuto Studio Baseplate http://store.zacuto.com/Studio-Baseplate-for-SE.html for the Scarlet and Epic when I spoke with a company today about buying them.

They carry both, but were very adamant that the Wooden system was the best way to go.

To me, I see that the Wooden system has a lot of drilled holes, whereas the Zacuto has 15mm rods that come out of the front as LWS, and also the side and out of the back.

Zacuto has their Zwiss Plate for mounting batteries, etc. http://store.zacuto.com/zwiss-plate.html

and Wooden has their solutions, the 15mm Brideplate and Dovetail among others.

I mostly want a rig for tripod use, but would like the ability to add a shoulder pad and hand grips - and a battery.

It looks like both can do the same things, but in different ways, and with different advantages and disadvantages.

I know there's not a 'right' way, but ... are the advantages to using Wooden for setting up a rig going to outweigh the advantages for using Zacuto?

My current equipment consists of the Canon mount Scarlet, Side Handle, REDmote, LCD touch screen.

Thanks!

 

[Mike Tiffee]

I don't know much about the Zacuto system but I can give a solid thumbs up to the WC system.

 

[Shane Kelly]

Wooden camera, no question about it.

 

[Bob Gundu]

WC.

 

[Andy White]

The Wooden camera would mean you could keep a dovetail on your tripod and then have a dovetail style shoulder mount - just slide off one and slide on the other.

I'm still debating myself (Clutch vs Wooden Camera)... in the meantime, doing old school with rods and a soft pad.sack fro my shoulder

The Zacuto seems a bit more DSLR like... but it does have the horizontal aligned holes for rods - and that's a useful feature.

When you're shooting H/H, where are you intending to put your monitor (or EVF)? - as that might help inform some of your choices too.

 

[Les C.]

The Wooden camera would mean you could keep a dovetail on your tripod and then have a dovetail style shoulder mount - just slide off one and slide on the other.

I'm still debating myself (Clutch vs Wooden Camera)... in the meantime, doing old school with rods and a soft pad.sack fro my shoulder

The Zacuto seems a bit more DSLR like... but it does have the horizontal aligned holes for rods - and that's a useful feature.

When you're shooting H/H, where are you intending to put your monitor (or EVF)? - as that might help inform some of your choices too.

What makes a rig 'DSLR' like?

This shows a RED mounted with the Zacuto and a battery mounted on the back.

http://www.zacutoimages.com/p462016165/ea391b6#ha391b6

With longer rods, a shoulder pad could be mounted in between and grips on the front rods.

Some of the other pictures in this set show how that would be done when using an assortment of front handles. I'd be very interested in your opinion as to pros/cons of setups like shown in the Zacuto pictures.

I ?think? that it would then be balanced and provide access to the camera

I haven't decided where the LCD will go. This is my first rig. Possibly a Noga arm or one of the Zacuto arms to extend off the the left.

I'm leaning towards the O-BOX WM MB and Cinevate Durus FF.

I'll need to figure the best way to deal with the REDmote (I guess there will be room on the back if I have the battery way back as a counter weight?)

 

[Mike Tiffee]

I put my Cartoni QR plate on the front of my WC HH dovetail just behind the handle bar. It's not in the way but allows me to simply lock the entire HH rig on my tripod. Simply slide the camera forward on the dovetail to balance over your tripod. 5 seconds. The Cartoni plate fits perfect in front of the shoulder pad.

 

[Les C.]

I put my Cartoni QR plate on the front of my WC HH dovetail just behind the handle bar. It's not in the way but allows me to simply lock the entire HH rig on my tripod. Simply slide the camera forward on the dovetail to balance over your tripod. 5 seconds. The Cartoni plate fits perfect in front of the shoulder pad.

Do you have a picture and parts list? Thanks!

 

[Andy White]

Zacuto have been very much at the forefront of DSLR rigs these past few years - and (IMO) I see some of that design style reflected in what they're doing with this... it's their C300 solution with a riser (and those useful cross mount holes). Also, a lot of Zacuto's recent stuff has been built with the much lighter DSLR cameras in mind (and around 15mm LW) - were the Epic is heaver than other cameras (and would normally be rigged in 19mm or 15 mm studio).

It sounds like you're leaning towards the Zacuto?

Honestly, it depends on what you're shooting and how flexible you want to be. For me, the Wooden Camera solutions (or the RED ones) are more thought out in terms of using larger lenses (ie you'd put the support for the lens and maybe even the mattebox on teh 19mm raisl and just have FF on the 15mm LW).

My thoughts are the Zacutio set up isn't what I'd want on set. It's all (as far as i can see with a quick look!) based on 15mm LW supports... the handles are attached to the rails (as would your mattebox/follow focus etc)... so it's crowded there as all are using the same rails. With other systems (and more non DSLR ones), the grips wouldn't be mounted (necessarily) to the same rods as the mattebox/follow focus etc - and it's better to have a camera that can slide on and off rails quickly - or use something like RED's quick release system. The more camera crew you have, the faster and simpler things need to be.

If this is your first rig, I'd really suggest a trip to a dealer or rental house - it's important to try out a few things as you might find (in use) your opinion on the position of things may change... and better not to loose too much cash on kit that might not be right for your use.

Primary to your choice (I think) should be how you monitor (EVF or LCD) and the position of this that works for you...

Also, lens choice - are you PL or Canon? I only ask this in terms of FF use and mattebox choice... and you're right on the Redmote, if you're mounting your batteries on the back of your rig, your 'mote can sit on the back of your camera

 

[Mike Tiffee]

 

[Andy White]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-04ICkbw1fw - don't know if you've seen this? Might be useful in seeing mounting on Dovetails etc

 

[Les C.]

Zacuto have been very much at the forefront of DSLR rigs these past few years - and (IMO) I see some of that design style reflected in what they're doing with this... it's their C300 solution with a riser (and those useful cross mount holes). Also, a lot of Zacuto's recent stuff has been built with the much lighter DSLR cameras in mind (and around 15mm LW) - were the Epic is heaver than other cameras (and would normally be rigged in 19mm or 15 mm studio).

It sounds like you're leaning towards the Zacuto?

Honestly, it depends on what you're shooting and how flexible you want to be. For me, the Wooden Camera solutions (or the RED ones) are more thought out in terms of using larger lenses (ie you'd put the support for the lens and maybe even the mattebox on teh 19mm raisl and just have FF on the 15mm LW).

My thoughts are the Zacutio set up isn't what I'd want on set. It's all (as far as i can see with a quick look!) based on 15mm LW supports... the handles are attached to the rails (as would your mattebox/follow focus etc)... so it's crowded there as all are using the same rails. With other systems (and more non DSLR ones), the grips wouldn't be mounted (necessarily) to the same rods as the mattebox/follow focus etc - and it's better to have a camera that can slide on and off rails quickly - or use something like RED's quick release system. The more camera crew you have, the faster and simpler things need to be.

If this is your first rig, I'd really suggest a trip to a dealer or rental house - it's important to try out a few things as you might find (in use) your opinion on the position of things may change... and better not to loose too much cash on kit that might not be right for your use.

Primary to your choice (I think) should be how you monitor (EVF or LCD) and the position of this that works for you...

Also, lens choice - are you PL or Canon? I only ask this in terms of FF use and mattebox choice... and you're right on the Redmote, if you're mounting your batteries on the back of your rig, your 'mote can sit on the back of your camera

Andy - I'm still up in the air on for my choice of vendor, but I doubt that I'll be using PL, as that's a bit out of my budget.

Most of my work will be on a tripod/Cineslider and dollies - and I'm looking into Kessler's robotics.

Shoulder mounting is not something that I'd be doing very much of - but I'd like the option to be there. But, it would never be something where I'd use shoulder mount for hours at a time.

That's a good point about the grips. I have zero experience with using a rig, so any feedback is appreciated. On another thread, someone mentioned using the O-Box grips as their hand grips, which I never would have thought of (but, then again, $2K for hand grips is a bit pricy for me). I'd really like to be able to start/stop recording with the grips, and I think that's something Zacuto does provide.

I do have a question on the REDmote. Would the Wooden top plates interfere with the radio siginals? I'm about to go pick up my REDmote at FedEx tonight, so ... I'm hoping against hope that they will have some decent range.

 

[Clint Lealos]

Wooden Camera rules! I have nothing but WC stuff on my Scarlet and I am thrilled with the system. You can't go wrong

 

[Andy White]

Les - the Zacuto grips don't control RED recording (unless I've missed something?)... the Wooden top plate has a section (the silver link cover) you can remove to improve reception if there are problems.

 

[Robino_J]

I love my Zacuto baseplate. The riser in the front is great and adjustable perfect for matte boxes.

 

[Mike Tiffee]

Do you have a picture and parts list? Thanks!

Here ya go. Here is a pic of the Cartoni dovetail (that came with tripod) attached to WC system. Then the system mounted on the tripod in HH config, then you can see the cam slid forward on the WC dovetail for balance. Also moved battery using quick back from the A mount to the camera.

 

[Jeff J Daniels]

+1 for WC

Solid products, and excellent customer support.

 

[Les C.]

Here ya go. Here is a pic of the Cartoni dovetail (that came with tripod) attached to WC system. Then the system mounted on the tripod in HH config, then you can see the cam slid forward on the WC dovetail for balance. Also moved battery using quick back from the A mount to the camera.

Mike - I'm guessing you have a Wooden 'Easy Riser' and a LW 15mm Bracket?

Could you list your other components?

What does 'HH config' mean?

My tripod didn't come with a quick release, but I have a Manfrotto 357 with a long plate:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554151-REG/Manfrotto_357_357_Pro_Quick_Release.html

hopefully, that will work in some fashion?

What's the very long plate that looks like it's connected to the 'Easy Riser' by a piece of silver metal?

That articulating arm gives you a lot of flexibility. Do you ever need a hood over the LCD?

When the camera is right over your shoulder, can you reach everything?

I guess it goes from tripod to shoulder in an instant, but ... how long does it take to assemble?

Thanks!

 

[Shane Kelly]

The zacuto gear is heavy. Yes it will last forever but it is not really designed specifically for the epic or scarlet. I do own some zacuto gear dating back to the lexus 35 mm adapter days and do occasionally pull it out to solve a mounting problem but I think that it's overpriced and have to laugh every time that I see a full zacuto rig with dual handles and counterweights on the back. I'll put a battery on the back but no counterweights.
It seems that so many of the accessory manufacturers have never operated a camera for more than 5 minutes. Take a look at their rigs: how do you pull focus? Is the focus wheel jammed into your chin? Can you operate without looking 45 degrees up in the air? Is the lens above your head or is the monitor in your line of sight?
Not to date myself but the Aaton really was the perfect handheld camera, hell even the arri sr2 was a good second and there's a reason that the betacam form factor has persisted for so long. Look at these designs and look at the monstrosities that are being sold to unsuspecting buyers. Handheld work should be fluid and the camera should be a part of the operator, a crazy contraption on you shoulder will not achieve this.
Ok, rant over.
I like what wooden camera and innocinema are doing right now, they are obviously shooters. Look at their solutions.

 

[Yaque Silva-Doyle]

The zacuto gear is heavy. Yes it will last forever but it is not really designed specifically for the epic or scarlet. I do own some zacuto gear dating back to the lexus 35 mm adapter days and do occasionally pull it out to solve a mounting problem but I think that it's overpriced and have to laugh every time that I see a full zacuto rig with dual handles and counterweights on the back. I'll put a battery on the back but no counterweights.
It seems that so many of the accessory manufacturers have never operated a camera for more than 5 minutes. Take a look at their rigs: how do you pull focus? Is the focus wheel jammed into your chin? Can you operate without looking 45 degrees up in the air? Is the lens above your head or is the monitor in your line of sight?
Not to date myself but the Aaton really was the perfect handheld camera, hell even the arri sr2 was a good second and there's a reason that the betacam form factor has persisted for so long. Look at these designs and look at the monstrosities that are being sold to unsuspecting buyers. Handheld work should be fluid and the camera should be a part of the operator, a crazy contraption on you shoulder will not achieve this.
Ok, rant over.
I like what wooden camera and innocinema are doing right now, they are obviously shooters. Look at their solutions.

+++1