Will the new BlackMagic Camera affect 4K sales.

[patrickortman]

Yes it will impact Scarlet sales. No it will not impact EPIC sales. BlackMagic is the Scarlet that everyone was waiting for.

100% with you on that.

It's the perfect little friend for a whole lot of what I'll be doing- crazy almost crash cam stuff, tying it to a car and driving @ 60mph through the desert, etc.

Looking forward to cutting it in with MX footage and delivering @ 2K.

 

[Mark Kern]

I think cameras like this will only fuel the fire for more RAW and more resolution, boosting RED sales. Its good all around. We preordered one, so I'm excited to try it out.

 

[Josh Snyder]

No doubt they will sell a ton of these but I believe RED knows their market and it's based in the 4k+, 35mm sensor size world. No matter how you slice and dice it, the BM camera is not a 4K camera, and it has a crop factor that isn't equivalent to super 35mm. If it was, then RED would have more of a problem on their hands.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people bought a BM camera as a B-Cam to their Scarlet. Win-win for everyone.

This forum is full of people who were waiting 3K for 3K Scarlet.

 

[Felix K.]

I like the whole distribution thing. There are already Germany-based resellers listed where I will be able to go and spend my money. No customs hassle etc. And regular SSDs instead of the INSANELY expensive custom RED SSDs.

 

[Noel R.]

I'm selling my 7D and getting one of these. I was going to buy DaVinci anyway so that's a steal. I get a B-Cam to my Scarlet, and a camera I'm not affraid to mount on a remote control Heli. I can use it with the cheaper steadicam rigs. I could see lot's of advantages to using this camera. Will it affect RED sells, I think yes. There is an enormous market who wanted the Scarlet but couldn't afford it, they will more than likely buy the BMD cam. Then there are those who are on the fence to buying a Scarlet who may opt for the BMD cam also.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I think this cam only can push people in the direction of RAW or good RGB formats. Which is all good.

People will start off with this, and eventually upgrade to the RED or Arri cameras.

Others will use them as sidekicks and the lost scarlet 3k. Like myself.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Deal killer? 2-1 sensor crop. Who wants to shoot everything with a 2-1 crop?
Where in every shot my 50mm lens is a 100mm? No thanks.

 

[Peter Stadelmann]

Deal killer? 2-1 sensor crop. Who wants to shoot everything with a 2-1 crop?
Where in every shot my 50mm lens is a 100mm? No thanks.

+1 The BlackMagic Camera is more an Ikonoskop or Bolex D16 killer.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Deal killer? 2-1 sensor crop. Who wants to shoot everything with a 2-1 crop?
Where in every shot my 50mm lens is a 100mm? No thanks.

Well, that was the idea with the 2/3" Scarlet, too...
We knew that.

This is my handycam. Easilly!

 

[David Rasberry]

+1 The BlackMagic Camera is more an Ikonoskop or Bolex S16 killer.

Ikonoskop and Bolex are both more practical in form factor and the ability to use S16mm/16mm cine glass with a variety of interchangeable mounts. Ergonomically the BMC is like a giant point and shoot. Unless Black Magic enables lower resolution crop modes, you are stuck with 35mm or 4/3 optics. Great to see them pushing cinemaDNG raw, but I still want a true S16mm solution. Ikonoskop and bolex aren't plagued with rolling shutter issues either.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Ikonoskop and Bolex are both more practical in form factor and the ability to use S16mm/16mm cine glass with a variety of interchangeable mounts. Ergonomically the BMC is like a giant point and shoot. Unless Black Magic enables lower resolution crop modes, you are stuck with 35mm or 4/3 optics. Great to see them pushing cinemaDNG raw, but I still want a true S16mm solution.

You can allways crop in post, though...

 

[David Rasberry]

You can allways crop in post, though...

True, true...

 

[Sid Idris]

In the end I think RED will be gratified that other manufacturers (BMD, Digital Bolex) had decided to serve segments of the market with a raw acquisition format. As others have said it increases RAW awareness and raises consumer expectations for Canon, Sony & Panasonic (raw acquisition is inevitable and essential to their relevance). On the other hand I think RED's sales are tied to their innovations. Monstro will bring a nice sales surge but it will be REDray that will change the landscape. I think there are more R3D users than R3D shooters who would make good use of a display solution (especially one that handles 4k DPX or other image sequence format)

 

[Sid Idris]

It's hard to believe. I think RED is working hard to stay away from consumer/prosumer pricing. Margins may be very thin and the added support and management may prove too costly to sustain. They're looking elsewhere to provide pricing value like the big ticket items where there's room to maneuver (think projection). 4K projectors cost anywhere from 40 to 100k. It's primed for a shakeup and RDC see's RED and smells blood.

OK I am going to call this. I May be wrong but if I'm right I call dibs on the first camera.

I THINK RED WILL RESURRECT THE 3K SCARLET (HOPEFULLY INTERCHANGEABLE EITHER 3/4 (2/3 or S16) FOR 3-5/6K DOLLARS FOR A SHOOTING KIT (Monitor /SSD / 1.8" Station / Side Handle / 2 Batteries + Charge / BasePlate )
HOPEFULLY WITH PRO RES and DNxHD RECORDING OPTIONS.

I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO BE COMPLETELY WRONG ON THIS; AS WE KNOW EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

 

[Andy White]

OK I am going to call this. I May be wrong but if I'm right I call dibs on the first camera.

I THINK RED WILL RESURRECT THE 3K SCARLET (HOPEFULLY INTERCHANGEABLE EITHER 3/4 (2/3 or S16) FOR 3-5/6K DOLLARS FOR A SHOOTING KIT (Monitor /SSD / 1.8" Station / Side Handle / 2 Batteries + Charge / BasePlate )
HOPEFULLY WITH PRO RES and DNxHD RECORDING OPTIONS.

I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO BE COMPLETELY WRONG ON THIS; AS WE KNOW EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

The old Scarlet is dead.

For the list of stuff in the shooting kit, what margin of profit is there?

The new Black Magic camera is the 'jumping on' point for users to move into a RAW workflow... but, these same users can't afford a fully kitted out Scarlet (let alone an Epic). At a smaller size than m4/3, a lot of users will struggle (if they only have recent style experience and are not old schoolers

Basically, Black Magic are producing the 'everyman' RAW camera - one that is still unproven (we need to see more materials), but a camera that follows the RED RAW philosophy. Their camera will be within the affordability range of the low end indie crowd... and be their introduction to the world of RAW workflows.

I don't think RED want to compete in this market. There isn't enough profit unless there are massive volume in sales... and the more inexperienced users don't understand the camera system they have purchased (and the workflows/workarounds etc that will need to be done to use it). Look at the situation now with new Scarlet users getting to grips with RAW, exposures, camera methodology and process etc.

The reality is the Black Magic camera is cheap RAW for everyone (that maybe can't afford Scarlet/Epic yet) - and I can't see RED wanting to go after this market segment.

Just my thoughts

 

[David Rasberry]

OK I am going to call this. I May be wrong but if I'm right I call dibs on the first camera.

I THINK RED WILL RESURRECT THE 3K SCARLET (HOPEFULLY INTERCHANGEABLE EITHER 3/4 (2/3 or S16) FOR 3-5/6K DOLLARS FOR A SHOOTING KIT (Monitor /SSD / 1.8" Station / Side Handle / 2 Batteries + Charge / BasePlate )
HOPEFULLY WITH PRO RES and DNxHD RECORDING OPTIONS.

I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO BE COMPLETELY WRONG ON THIS; AS WE KNOW EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

If Red stayed with the 3.3u pixel pitch of the original 2/3" Scarlet they could squeeze at least QuadHD into a true S16mm size sensor.
My ideal Scarlet would be Dragon tech sensor with .0044 pixel pitch: 4k 1.89:1 format at 4/3 sensor size, 3k at S16mm size and 2k at 2/3" size. First dibs on that one.:001_cool:

 

[Andy White]

Very valid points Sid / Andy !
It all depends on the impact the Blackmagic Camera will have on Red Scarlet sales.
If Red prevents BM getting a foothold and taking sales and revenue from the Scarlet (not to mention the accessory market) it may decide to produce a camera with lower margins simply
because it will feed sales of their higher end Cameras, Accessories, Red Ray, Projector and other items based on the R3D workflow.
Whatever way you look at it the Blackmagic Camera is going to come to market, the question is can Red afford not to get involved in this end of the market ?
Who Knows ?

Ray - yes, really it's RED's financial model we should be discussing

But I think the BMC is an interesting 'thing' - sort of a 5DMKII for the indie/cine 'we want RAW - but not at at RED/ARRI/Sony prices'

I'll pick one up after it's been around for a few months. Fun crash-cam.'B' Cam etc - and will be interested to see how it cuts with Epic footage.

 

[Erich Ocean]

I'll pick one up after it's been around for a few months.

I'd guess that the majority of Red owners will eventually own the BM camera.

We're already comfortable with RAW workflow, and frankly, like the Canon 5D, it's cheap enough that there's that "why not?" factor.

It's literally so inexpensive that the cost is not an issue, and we'll want to see what it can do.

 

[Mike P.]

Fixed Scarlet is dead, and as much as RED could probably hammer out an amazing 2/3rd camera, the problem is they'd never hit that $3k target... Wait, let me rephrase: even if they could get it cheaper than $3k, how much cheaper would it be? $1k? $200? And at that price point, how much profit would they be making? Probably not enough to warrant the headaches. More over - and again, assuming the BMDCC doesn't blow - why would anyone spend $6k on a fixed 2/3" Scarlet (unless it did 120fps, etc.) when they could get a non-proprietary and ready-to-shoot s16/RAW equivalent in the BMDCC for $3k? It just seems far too competitive and the margins far too small to make it worthwhile for RED.

The question with this camera is: Will a cheap intro into RAW help RED sales or not? I'm inclined to think that, because of just how inexpensive this camera is, it won't do a thing to increase the sales of cameras that are $10k+. In fact, I'd bet it will only hurt that market, since now people will be more inclined to expect s35/4k for $6k (since, to the lay man [aka "Artist"], it's essentially "just double" the specs, so it should only be double the price.)

 

[conrad gaunt]

I haven't seen 4k on my TV yet.. and Im all out of 4k projectors at home.. Im sure sometime in the next 12months both will arrive and kick in my back door.. I may have to buy a HD tv to defend myself.. who knows .. or maybe not..

anyway, the 2.5k lossless raw recording makes it very similar to the Alexa with a codex box etc (lol!).. the BM camera looks very interesting to me, but the proof will be in the pudding.. which I intend to sample

The vimeo clips looked useful to me