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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Will the new BlackMagic Camera affect 4K sales.

Since, I was already in the market for Davinci Resolve (loving the lite version, but really want 4K output [yes, I am doing 4K output for features]) I think it's a no brainer for me to get. I'm sure there will be uses for it all over the place. i have a Scarlet and and Epic and find my Scarlet is the most desired one based solely on the price point.

When bidding on projects, people will go for limited frame rates and 4K, to save a couple hundred per day. of course, when you get that last minute request, "Let's shoot this one at 120fps." you have to tell them they opted to save a couple hundred dollars.

Anyway, it's too good a deal to pass up. Make a good third camera for any live podcasting I might be doing as well.
 
The form factor of this camera is tragic, making a suitable handheld/EVF rig is going to take conisderable effort and metal.
Add a proper battery system ($1500), rails and cages ($1000) an EVF ($750) SSDs ($1000) and you're now getting pretty close to Scarlet territory. Honestly though what the BM threatens is the C300, which requires pretty much the same gak but is 5x the price for a highly compressed 8bit file.
 
Evin Grant said:
The form factor of this camera is tragic, making a suitable handheld/EVF rig is going to take conisderable effort and metal.
Add a proper battery system ($1500), rails and cages ($1000) an EVF ($750) SSDs ($1000) and you're now getting pretty close to Scarlet territory. Honestly though what the BM threatens is the C300, which requires pretty much the same gak but is 5x the price for a highly compressed 8bit file.
Click to expand...
I agree, except that many people will be coming over from other cameras where they may already own the rails, EVF, support, etc. But the battery system and the SSDs are a big question mark. It looks like it uses standard SSDs and as far as I can tell they don't limit you to qualified media. Maybe that will change as things get closer.

If you are just looking to plop this thing on a tripod and start shooting, i.e. not configuring it for heavy duty run&gun or cinema use then the price point is still pretty good. Like any camera system, you have to factor in what you will be using it for and what accessories will be needed to accomplish it. For example, with Scarlet I think many people underestimated the cost of media, and cut it really close with their budgets as evidenced by many threads asking to lower the cost of the media.

If the images are solid, then for sure the DSLR market, including the C300 will be fighting this little guy, although the C300 does have some features this camera doesn't.
 
Yes it will impact Scarlet sales. No it will not impact EPIC sales. BlackMagic is the Scarlet that everyone was waiting for.
 
Evin Grant said:
Add a proper battery system ($1500), rails and cages ($1000) an EVF ($750) SSDs ($1000) and you're now getting pretty close to Scarlet territory. Honestly though what the BM threatens is the C300, which requires pretty much the same gak but is 5x the price for a highly compressed 8bit file.
Click to expand...

Add those things you mentiond to Scarlet and it's 20.000$. BlackMagic is way cheaper when both have equal accesories.
 
I suppose you'll be able to power it with Bescor-like battery packs and such, although I would think the common way will be to go with a more standard anton-bauer or V-mount system with the appropriate cable adapters. If you already own some of that, then really it's the SSDs that's the big add-on. I haven't seen the camera in person yet, so I have no idea how good/bad the onboard display is. If going external monitoring looks like you'll need an SDI monitor/EVF or adapt for HDMI.
 
I expect to use AB or V mount with the camera.

Of course I'm ot very impressed with RedVolt, so I plan on using that sort of system with Epic.

The internal battery is really a nice feature ... I'll never have to worry about hot swapping.

As far as rigging the camera goes ... Have you guys ever seen an Epic? The Epic is a smarter design for many reasons ... But it requires lots of rigging gear to make it a good camera for lots of work styles. Once you get the end to the correct height above the rods, rigging this camera will be much easier than a DSLR and only a bit harder than Epic.

I'm more concerned with lensing this thing than anything else. I think I'm just going to go with EF mount ... Seems like the path of least resistance.
 
The Scarlet-X is like CRACK, the most addictive camera on the planet. Its the best release ever from RED. Fully kitted at 20k, there is virtually no camera on the plant that can rival its price to quality ratio. Not even the epic.

I'm not sure if it was because of the limited quantity releases or what. I'm shock folks are not screaming it praises.

The camera is weighted enough to give a not too shaky handheld performance, if you know what you're doing that is. Sure the BM cam is cool, but surely once you have felt the power of 4k raw in your palm you will know how Thor feels with his hammer. Surely folks in every magazine online etc continuously tout the dynamic range of the etc Alexa et al. I have found that shooting the Scarlet-x at a high iso 800 - 1000 allows you to expose for sexy DR which you will realize once you are in RCX tweaking at the camera's native 400 ISO.

I am yet to try HDRX. yes a few extra stops of DR would be fabulous, but really to have a solid, sharp and well resolved image beats softness anyday.
 
So, are we to understand that you have two Scarlets, shashbugu? ( ;

Epic is still on my most wanted list, but I'm all over the BMC camera. It's likely one of the most important camera releases to date, as far as illustrating the shifting connections between the high and low ground: the trend. The map is constantly being rewritten in favor of the purchaser. High end film will always be one thing, but the opportunities to compete on a more modest level are growing.
 
I think it's hard to say. Assuming that it doesn't actually suck (for whatever reason) -- for ~$4G (including multiple SSDs and lenses), you're shooting s16 RAW essentially out of the box. No $1000-3000 REDmags, no ~$1000 battery solutions (revolts only last 25-30mins), presumably no blackshading hassles, no monitoring or control costs (REDmote is the cheapest)... Basically a lot of the stuff that prevents you from point and shooting is taken care of on the BMDCC, and there's much less nickel & dime-ing going on. If users buy into that ease of use, with 2.5k RAW capability, I can see them only upgrading to something that's just as easy/cheap.

$15k Scarlet kit is four times the cost; it's as equally large a gap as going from a 5D to a Scarlet, and I don't think as many people as we anticipated actually did that switch. What's crazy is that the camera is the size of a 5.6" monitor (albeit thicker) and it shoots RAW, ProRes and DNxHD internally, has an internal battery, can fit regular sized SSDs, and presumably can still be cooled well enough to operate... That's all kinds of rad.

I dunno, personally I can only see it reducing Scarlet sales: people who wanted a Scarlet (fixed) and have been trying make the price gap to $15k (but haven't) or people who come to the conclusion that s16/2.5kRAW for $3G is good enough for them. People who were planning on getting Scarlet/Epic because they *need* 4k+/S35 are still going to get Scarlet/Epic. However, that group is not going to magically increase because people are getting used to shooting RAW on a massively cheaper/ready-to-shoot camera; that seems somewhat backwards-thinking. Even when they out-grow the BMCC, it'll be a year or two, and who knows what will be available and (more importantly) for what price.
 
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Mike P. said:
$15k Scarlet kit is four times the cost; it's as equally large a gap as going from a 5D to a Scarlet, and I don't think as many people as we anticipated actually did that switch. What's crazy is that the camera is the size of a 5.6" monitor (albeit thicker) and it shoots RAW, ProRes and DNxHD internally, has an internal battery, can fit regular sized SSDs, and presumably can still be cooled well enough to operate... That's all kinds of rad.
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And it probably will not sound like a hair dryer. :thumbsup:
 
Dont forget, 2.5k is comes down to about 1080pyou in resolution, so its numbers may say 2.5k, but thats like panasonic claiming the AF100 iisa 3k camera, or sony saying the F3 is a 3.2k camera. It is... in a sense, but its really giving a clean 1080p. The RED only @ 4k (out of 5k and soon 6) is giving 3:2k of actual resolution, and thats significant., for a multitude of purposes whether it be post stabilizing, safety framing, or VFX work.

Its cheap, but kind of more of the same. I applaud the RAW inclusion, and onboard prores/dnxhd though.
 
Here we were planning to get Scarlet for some indy feature work, but now we're currently hesitating. Sure, 4K RAw is a great thing, but at which cost ? The Red Scarlet loses a lot of its resale value because of the warranty lost during the transfer of ownership, and its fee. There are several people who are trying to resale their like-new gear and it seems quite difficult without having to drop the price. And I don't even mention the Euro price with the customs problems.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice the resolution and dof, heck, it's 1/5 of a basic Scarlet price. Unless Red reacts and lowers their price to offer a basic ready-to-shoot package at $9K. Renting Scarlet isn't really an option for more than 3 weeks of shooting, it's cheaper to buy. Who knows, I read somewhere that evrything changes in life, that must include prices, don't you think so ?

Kristin
 
Kristin Stewart said:
The Red Scarlet loses a lot of its resale value because of the warranty lost during the transfer of ownership, and its fee. There are several people who are trying to resale their like-new gear and it seems quite difficult without having to drop the price.
[...]
Who knows, I read somewhere that evrything changes in life, that must include prices, don't you think so ?
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With around $25K invested into an all-RED Scarlet-X system, I don't think so. In just a few years, RED has earned the reputation of care for its stakeholders unmatched in its industry. Dropping prices would radically undermine its accrued goodwill. By the same token, its reputation would greatly benefit from a change in warranty extending its full protection to second-hand purchasers of their gear.
 
BM Cinema is an entry level camera. Less than what I was hoping for in the Scarlet Fixed, but more in other areas.
I use RED. I rent the Red One and Scarlet for my projects, but I'll buy a BM Camera because the price point is low and the features are good enough for my current workflow.
I'll also buy a Scarlet, but now is too costly for my needs.
 
Ray, the one thing to keep in mind is that the camera hasn't shipped yet, very few people have used it, and probably even fewer people have actually used it on a real gig. No doubt they will sell a ton of these but I believe RED knows their market and it's based in the 4k+, 35mm sensor size world. No matter how you slice and dice it, the BM camera is not a 4K camera, and it has a crop factor that isn't equivalent to super 35mm. If it was, then RED would have more of a problem on their hands.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people bought a BM camera as a B-Cam to their Scarlet. Win-win for everyone. :-)
 
As a recovering Leica bigot, having invested in Canon lenses for my Scarlet-X, I will be all over the BlackMagic Camera for a B-Cam. I will also expect RED to buttress its long-term relationship with its customers by improving the price/performance ratio of the Scarlet system through offering an appropriate upgrade path. I am especially hopeful of a full range of accommodations for Leica M, R, and S lenses within the scope of the DSMC concept. I do not expect RED to compete with BMC directly, in view of its opportunity costs of moving down-market.
 
The 16mm/s16mm/2/3" sized formats have existed and thrived alongside the 35mm formats for decades. They are more practical for some uses than S35. That said the BMC is neither fish nor fowl. S16mm glass won't cover it so you don't get the major advantage of compact fast wide range high quality zooms that come with the smaller formats and it won't have major appeal for the uber shallow DOF crowd.
I am looking toward the Digital Bolex. For a hobby cam it is workable for both standard and S16mm lenses, has a more practical form factor and interchangeable lens mounts. It offers a range of frame rates at different crops with a global shutter CCD, no rolling shutter issues. It records to SD format off the shelf media buffered by a 256GB internal SSD. I'm interested in a raw solution, Prores and DNXHD aren't relevant to me since I have never used either format.
I don't expect Red to do so, but if they would release the interchangeable lens version of the 3k 2/3" Scarlet with a PL mount, original frame rates and all, for a sub $5k brain price I would be all in. Thank you Red for introducing me to raw motion cameras. I'm hooked. I'm over video.
 
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