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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Will Scarlet take over the HVX200

Local Sony head told me that they have sold more EX1 cameras (or presold at that point) that Panasonic had sold HVX cameras total in New Zealand. Although take that with a fairly large grain of salt I guess - whether he'd know Panasonic's numbers, and whether he'd inflate his. And also I perhaps misunderstood.

That said - there's no way they'll sell a million. That's an absurd number for a camera of it's type. I doubt any camera model has ever sold those numbers. Even consumer ones.
 
Mike Krumlauf said:
Any thoughts on if Scarlet will take over the much admired Panasonic HVX200. I am a proud owner of an HVX and i would be so upset after only about a year (from the time scarlet releases) to sell it for a scarlet. Is it going to even be in the same price range?
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We have no idea what Scarlet will ultimately be, how much it will cost, or even when it will be available. In six weeks or so these questions should be answered for the most part. That will be a relief, to say the least. Then of course we'll all switch from guessing what the Scarlet is to debating the pros and cons of its design. LOL

killfilm said:
no dont, with the ex1 you gotta put up with the long GOP, and the rolling shutter problems.
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I have no idea what "long GOP" is (anyone care to educate me?), but I do know that the Red One suffers from rolling shutter problems as well. So, I kind of doubt that Scarlet will be any better.

Sycophant said:
If anyone is complaining about Long-GOP in XDCAM EX (or even HDV) they're going to be disappointed by AVCHD.
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AVCHD is a disappointing codec across the board. It really is made for consumer grade cameras.
 
Barry Green said:
best guess I can come up with would be that there were about 100,000 to 120,000 DVX100s sold worldwide. And the DVX was a game-changer, one of the biggest-selling camcorders ever. And that's counting almost six years of sales, all combined.
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Great information Barry. Very interesting. I would tend to believe the overall video market is expanding all the time - however, there are so many good cameras in existence out there working it makes you wonder at what point people say - 'eh, my current camera is really nice, I'm not worried about the next thing'.

I still have a Nikon D70 for instance. There are nicer SLR's now - but still, that one does pretty well. PC's are similar. If you're surfing the net do you really need a new computer?

Where in all that something like Scarlet and RED end up fitting will be interesting to watch.
 
Maybe I'm looking at it too simply, but from the way it's been described:

the Scarlet = High Resolution + Extreme portability

As such I'm guessing its record times will not be all that long. But so what, if you can take it literally anywhere with you.

In my mind I'm thinking about something like one of the Nokia camera phones, size wise, though I might be taking the "pocket" in pocket professional camera too literally. But wouldn't that be sweet.

In any case if we are talking about something small, then there will obviously be some restrictions as to what it can do. And it won't really be competing with the HVX, it will be something else entirely.

Honestly the real HVX killer in my opinion is the Red One. Sure you could say that there's just no comparison and that's true, but for indie filmmakers like myself the digital realm consisted of the super high-end and something like the HVX with the P+S Technics adapter. The Red changed all that.
 
gop

gop

Boz said:
I have no idea what "long GOP" is (anyone care to educate me?),

.
Click to expand...

literally "Group of Pictures" - or "interframe" compression - it uses information and differences in successive frames to record the data.

AVCHD, HDV, XDCAM and many newer formats are all of this "interframe" mould

DV, DVCPRO, HDCAM, JVC DigitalS etc. are older formats that are "Intra" or single frame compression systems. as well as the newer raw formats.



..Not going to enter the hornet's nest of the pros and cons of various compression approaches...
 
Barry Green said:
there were about 100,000 to 120,000 DVX100s sold worldwide.

As for Panasonics, they're claiming 60,000 P2 units worldwide (since it was unveiled in 2004).
So all together that's 60,000. Figure on well over half of that being HVX200s, and that would give you maybe 35,000 to 40,000 HVXs worldwide.

Sony, last I saw, was claiming 14,000 XDCAM units sold worldwide, including standard-def and high-def combined -- and that's not just cameras, that also included decks and readers and whatnot.

The EX1 is more expensive than the HVX. If I was to guess, I'd guess it would have a worldwide saturation point of somewhere around 80,000. But it'll take four or five years to get to that point.
Click to expand...

120,000 HVX's in 4 years?
80,000 Ex1's in five years?

50% of sale price is profit for retailer and distributor.
Let us imagine, Sony gets, 50% of the retail price of $6500 for every Ex1.
That makes 80,000 x $3250 = $520 million in 5 years.
That won't even cover their advertisement budget for Ex1 in one year.

They spent billions on R&D and for manufacturing the 1/2 " senssor used in Ex1, and for all the associated technologies.
Sony is a for-profit company.
Since price is fixed, they simply have to sell the intended target of million units to recover their investment and make a profit.
 
Hawaj said:
Yep, since EX1 is somehow considered like HVX killer, its time for Panys turn now.
HVX is here for long time so we can expect some shrinked HPX500.
I'm interested what with will Canon come :shifty:
And Scarlet? It's far away. At NAB Jim will present prototype everybody will say "wow I want it now" (me too :biggrin:) , but it take some time when it really hit market and when it get from beta stadium.
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I really hope RED follows Apple's example in product release. Apple keeps it a secret until the announcment, then Steve says it is available today (or within a few months).

If we recall SCARLET was announced over a year ago. If they come out at NAB and say "here it is, we hope to release it next year."

I will be blind with rage.

If they announce SCARLET details at NAB it better be available soon. Otherwise we are being teased into waiting for information on a camera that won't even be available for a long time.
 
Barry, I enjoy a lot your posts and I am pretty happy that I am reading them now here as well and not only on DVXUser! I have my HVX for over an year and I have to say that I simply love this camera. I am not going to sell it when I get the RED ONE and honestly, I do not see any reason to switch for Scarlet after I have both RED and HVX. From what it looks Scarlet would not be a direct competitor to HVX but rather a camera that opens an entirely new class. I will wait to see but RED and HVX pretty much cover most of what I care to shoot. Sony is not an interesting option for me ever since the times of DVX 100.
 
vincelucero said:
Sell it. The Sony EX1 is better. Low light is incredible and useful for 35mm adapters.
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I'd love to see you try to rent an EX-1 before an HVX200. =B Doesn't matter how good it looks, no one wants to pay to rent it right now.

Maybe by the end of the year, but then who knows what'll be out.

Sad to say, but I can see the EX-1 being another V1U. Great when it first comes out, disappears behind Pana and Canon after six months. But, that's just me.
 
Given the little we know, and considering what we know is subject to change, within reason, I'd guess that current "prosumer" models will not be able to compete with Scarlet. Why? In a word, "professional". Granted, this is a nebulous term but, considering its source, Jim Jannard and his team of geniuses, I can't see the RED guys making a camera that won't better the current Sonys and Canons just because it will fit in a pocket. And, does "fit in a pocket" mean before a lens is screwed on? Or before????? Maybe I'm way off mark here, but it's tough to overestimate the RED team's abilities and vision.
 
We're all just waiting.

We're all just waiting.

RED have a lot of money to make if they take their modular design and upgradable firmware down to the prosumer level, but having TOO good a camera at that level might torpedo RED ONE sales... but then again, the idea of making those tools available to the little guy is pretty much the mission of the company. So who knows.

Remember when mp3 players hit the scene around 2000-2002? Everyone was frustrated with the hard-to-use software and proprietary codecs that came with them, not to mention the 40 or 100 song capacity. And then the iPod came in, it could hold thousands of songs and was very easy to use. It took a few years to become really useful, but Apple cashed in. They've cashed in again with the iPhone, which did the exact same thing for PDAs.

Right now everyone's fiddling around trying to find, essentially, the standard to replace DV-on-tape (p2 or similar is still the simplest therefore best IMO despite the price) and claiming that their new gadget and codec are the best, and it all reminds me of mp3 players before the iPod and PDAs before the iPhone. Besides students with HVXs, I don't think anyone in the prosumer market is REALLY happy with their camera. There's a big payout going to the company that develops a camera/codec/format which cuts the BS.

If Sony, JVC, and Canon STILL can't pull their heads out of the sand with their messy codecs and recording systems, then I doubt they're going to anytime soon. If anyone is going to make a breakthrough camera, it's either going to be Panasonic with a CMOS-based native-res HVX upgrade, or RED with... something we won't be able to predict.
 
"pocket"

"pocket"

"Pocket" might refer to the insertion of a hard disk the size of the LaCie Little Disk straight into the camera. The camera wouldn't have a "slot" per se, but a "pocket" for its media.

Just a thought.
 
Kholi said:
I'd love to see you try to rent an EX-1 before an HVX200. =B Doesn't matter how good it looks, no one wants to pay to rent it right now.

Maybe by the end of the year, but then who knows what'll be out.

Sad to say, but I can see the EX-1 being another V1U. Great when it first comes out, disappears behind Pana and Canon after six months. But, that's just me.
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I know a lot of people renting out the EX1 and preferring it over the HVX (including clients preferring it over the HVX as well), don't get me wrong they are both great little beasts, I personally prefer the EX1, just a better image, as for rolling shutter, nothing is perfect-you just have to work with it, oh well. The reason the V1U bombed is mainly because of it's workflow, Final Cut Pro just now (a couple months ago) supported it, that's insane! Out of the gate FCP is supporting the EX1, workflow is a cinch with it, and that's what seperates it (well besides the obvious other features) from the V1U and will make this camera survive...that is until Scarlet comes out:), but I'd also be interested to see what Panasonic has brewing up in the dungeons.
 
vincelucero said:
Sell it. The Sony EX1 is better. Low light is incredible and useful for 35mm adapters.
Click to expand...

Thats the same way I think, but at NAB show Panasonic will introduce their new 1080p HVX and thats an EX1 killer !
Wait and win..........

by the way, did you guy see this here on the forum bevor:
http://www.ikonoskop.com/gallery/index.asp
Im a huge men ! for me this is pocket !
And if they could work that one out, imagine what RED can do......
 
Kreisky said:
Thats the same way I think, but at NAB show Panasonic will introduce their new 1080p HVX and thats an EX1 killer !
Wait and win..........

by the way, did you guy see this here on the forum bevor:
http://www.ikonoskop.com/gallery/index.asp
Im a huge men ! for me this is pocket !
And if they could work that one out, imagine what RED can do......
Click to expand...

ah touche!!! now there are 2 good reasons I'm going to NAB:)
and yeah, that ikonoskope camera looks pretty rad too.....I've used their s16 version of it, was very stoked to find out they're doing a 2k version of it!
 
chuckt said:
Let us imagine, Sony gets, 50% of the retail price of $6500 for every Ex1.
That makes 80,000 x $3250 = $520 million in 5 years.
That won't even cover their advertisement budget for Ex1 in one year.
Click to expand...

Wow, I have to get in on some of that Sony marketing money. I mean a marketing campaign for a major movie can get up to the $50 million level so to spend 10 times that amount for a niche professional camera with no TV or radio ads, no billboards, etc... those must be some pricey print ads and trade show booths! :greedy:
 
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