Why to not like RED...

[D Fuller]

I have to say... without the support of many here, I would not have kept going. This is hard stuff.

If RED thrives, it is because of you.

Jim

And I have to say this: for many of us, if we thrive it is because of you. You both enable us and inspire us. Two way street here.

 

[Denizhan Nacar]

SCARLET...ANOTHER RED REVOLUTION...

 

[Patrick Grossien]

It's worse to stay in the middle grey area than to be black and white!

Be contrast, my friend !

I love RED and not only for the products but also for the way you guys do business. Some of the side affects will improve over time. Some won't. I'd rather have RED with bad delivery times than not have RED at all. Keep it up! We are right here, waiting!

Change is good!

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I can think of an awful lot of major, great-looking films of the last decade (Social Network and Avatar included) that were posted in 2K, then uprezzed at the end to 4K for film output.

The second two Star Wars prequels were done this way - but only because there was no choice. But they were shot on a dedicated 2K camera - no way would that footage look as good if it were shot on a DSLR (not a single DSLR is a real 2K camera).

So here is my opinion, based on evidence: if you want to effectively release at 2K, you bloody well should be shooting A) a dedicated camera and B) 3K+. Down-sampled footage at 2K always looks better than footage shot at 2K. So yeah, people see that 2K is "enough" (even though it isn't), but they forget that 2K can only be "enough" if all the appropriate steps are taken to begin with!

 

[Ben Holmes]

Things a lot of colleagues don't like about RED? Their unwillingness to release a finalised, feature complete camera. Arri may have been late to the party, but they made damn sure their product was bulletproof and well engineered. I understand WHY Red release how they do, but you should also understand that for some professionals it is an absolute turn-off.

I'm also with Shane Ross (post-Pro) in saying I love RED's products, but at times can't abide the RED fans. Reasoned debate is too often not an option.

I very much appreciate the balanced nature of Jim's post here - I think others could learn a thing or two from it...

 

[Brett Clements]

I haven't even shot your camera yet. We have bought it. Called it Paris. And we are waiting for some odds and ends. I invested in a belief. That's good enough for me.

 

[Brett Clements]

Well said Jim...

Haters are easily turned in to Lovers as soon as things do go their way, everyone over 20 years ago told me not to go to America, I would never amount to nothing there...

Well, today, while I still have sure lot to go... I have made something of myself thanks to that decision made over 20 years ago in a believe for myself...

Now all of those same people that said so, say... see, I knew you would make something of yourself...


RED is and wil be just about the same, were all those haters... Will soon turn al in favor, as they will simply be faced with the Naked Truth of reality, and what RED is offering, and how the Industry has Embraced.


As far as what RED is, beside been really a Family to me, I hope that on the Company side of things, we are ding what ever little might be, something which always reflects in favor of RED...


Can't wait for more...

I've watched everything you guys have done. It's awesome. I can't even power up my Epic yet. But I believe.

 

[Eston Diaz]

I'll tell you why not to like RED man... they will never let you sleep again, so excited you will be with their technology... never ever. never. ever. sleep. its that good.

Spike Energy Drink!!

I'll sleep when I'm dead! Yes its 5:00 am Sunday morning, who needs sleep!

We Only Need Scarlets!!!!

 

[M Most]

The second two Star Wars prequels were done this way - but only because there was no choice. But they were shot on a dedicated 2K camera - no way would that footage look as good if it were shot on a DSLR (not a single DSLR is a real 2K camera).

That is not the case. The second one (Attack of the Clones) was shot on Sony F900, an HD camera. The third (Revenge of the Sith) was shot on Sony F950, also an HD camera. The only real differences were 444 processing in the F950 (made for much better matte extractions) and HDCam SR recording on "Sith". There were no "dedicated 2K cameras" at the time, and there were no higher resolution digital cameras, either. There were also no usable 35mm sensor cameras (the Panavision Genesis, the first "real" 35mm digital camera, didn't appear until late 2004).

 

[David Dennis]

Things a lot of colleagues don't like about RED? Their unwillingness to release a finalised, feature complete camera. Arri may have been late to the party, but they made damn sure their product was bulletproof and well engineered. I understand WHY Red release how they do, but you should also understand that for some professionals it is an absolute turn-off.

Not sure if I understand this. I haven't heard anything from EPIC customers or even RED ONE customers saying their products weren't bulletproof and well-engineered.

Lacking in some features you'd pretty much take for granted, yes. (Like playback - hi Mark Toia, loved your five minutes a few months back ). But it seems pretty harsh to say they're not bulletproof and well engineered.

RED certainly seems willing to release a finalized and bulletproof camera, except that they give you the "early access" choice to get a camera earlier that is incomplete but still quality. Seems to me they are candid about saying what works and what doesn't, and letting people make up their minds about where in the development process to chip in and buy a unit. You always have the option to wait until their camera is completely ready.

So that doesn't seem like a reason to "hate" RED. I think there are two valid reasons:

- Delivery dates; and
- If you are conservative and want to stick with the old ways, RED rips away most of the excuses for doing so.

D

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Things a lot of colleagues don't like about RED? Their unwillingness to release a finalised, feature complete camera. Arri may have been late to the party, but they made damn sure their product was bulletproof and well engineered. I understand WHY Red release how they do, but you should also understand that for some professionals it is an absolute turn-off.



...

I think Jim is very sincere in his post when he suggests that these kind of folks really aren't RED's customers. If you need a fully finished - aka never to be improved - system that works at its full potential right from the first time you get it - RED's approach may not match yours. No one product can satisfy an entire market.; it's as simple as that.

 

[Albert Armes]

Things a lot of colleagues don't like about RED? Their unwillingness to release a finalised, feature complete camera. Arri may have been late to the party, but they made damn sure their product was bulletproof and well engineered. I understand WHY Red release how they do, but you should also understand that for some professionals it is an absolute turn-off.

I'm also with Shane Ross (post-Pro) in saying I love RED's products, but at times can't abide the RED fans. Reasoned debate is too often not an option.

I very much appreciate the balanced nature of Jim's post here - I think others could learn a thing or two from it...

I've been doing a lot of shooting recently, so late to the party here (Scarlet - can't wait for the 3rd) but when I first used Alexa it didn't do playback or audio, the first 5 frames of the prores were blocky with compression artifacts. And then the color science completely changed throwing off all the work I've done on LUTs.

Fortunately I've been able to shoot more on Epic and for me it's been a smoother ride, and it's eating other cameras alive for VFX work and keying.

Albert

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

nobody's perfect

 

[Deanan]

Lacking in some features you'd pretty much take for granted, yes. (Like playback - hi Mark Toia, loved your five minutes a few months back ). But it seems pretty harsh to say they're not bulletproof and well engineered.

Alexa didn't have playback till a year after they shipped it.
Audio plus a alot of other features also didn't come till later.
To say it was finalized when shipped is misleading.

 

[Elsie N]

SCARLET...ANOTHER RED REVOLUTION...

This was great! Looks like it would translate well to the big screen. Scarlet appears to be a new affordable cinema camera. Like!

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

All due respect to the Alexa, its a damn fine camera, but Deanan makes a point that an amazing number of people miss. The Alexa was not feature complete at launch and they have done 3 fairly major firmware/post-processing revisions so far.

FWIW the quality of the log-C ProRes 4x4 media created from Alexa's in camera downsample is quite good, particularly for TV finish. That said, at this time, access to the ArriRAW data set requires piggybacking a Codex DDR plus expensive hardware for data handling. The fact that a lightly compressed hi resolution RAW data set can be recorded on the Epic using tiny SSD drives that can be ingested from a compact $250 reader is orders of magnitude easier and cheaper.

I want playback as much as the next guy, but hanging RED out to dry on that one issue is unfair, especially since the Epic is so robust overall.

Cheers - #19

 

[Matt Fleming]

especially since the Epic is so robust overall.

Not to mention not even for sale to the general public yet!

 

[Yusuf Thakur]

Jim,

I will put this in perspective of how late you ARE.
If I had NO REDONE, I guarantee you I would be still shooting 2K at the Max in 2011 if I could afford it.
At the best I know 1080, and have five HD cameras from all THE LEADERS since 2001, buying a little better camera every few years but still 1080. Then the REDONE changed our game plan since 2008.
I have been shooting 4K since 2008, and now have one of the most extensive 4K Natural History footage of the Middle East.
Soon we will have the 5K Epic, and that’s the only camera we have bought or will buy since the REDONE.
You are welcome pleeeeease be LATE, its better that the years of Early path breaking cameras we had to buy, with just a few tweaks to 1080.
Yusuf Thakur
VFX,Dubai

 

[Eston Diaz]

nobody's perfect

This may be a little off subject.

I always feel that quite the opposite is true.

Perfect means complete. If its released its complete, at that moment. There may always be improvements, but.. it is complete (Perfect) at that moment in time.

Everything is Perfect.

 

[Andrew clemson]

My only reason to not like RED is that they are constantly releasing more stuff that I feel a need to spend money on.

Short of Apple products, Ive never known a manufacturer with a customer base so desperate to part with their cash!

Keep it coming!