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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why RED should kill .RSX

M

Mark L. Pederson

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IMO .RSX needs to go away as soon as possible, and be replaced by a "side-car" XML file in the .RDC and here is my case:

Today, we started processing a LARGE job which was shot with multiple Red cameras, on several workstations with RED Rocket cards. PLINY, who heads up the post at Offhollywood, immediately noticed that the meta-data for the media (collected via RedCSV) indicated that all footage was shot in the same color space/gamma space - yet RocketCine-X showed different color space/gamma space settings for the cameras.

We finally figured out that Rocketcine-X defaults to the .RSX - NOT the meta-data. This really reads like a recipe for disaster to me - and it got me all wound up again on an issue that is near and dear to my heart. I want .RSX to go away and I want an XML riding with my R3D. Inside that XML ... I want a LUT.

Another example - I gave a presentation with Dennis Radeke form Adobe on RED Adobe workflows recently. During the Q&A - a gentleman (who it turns out works at DELUXE) asked "does Adobe support .RSX?" The answer was "no". But let's look at the question again -

What he really was asking was ... "is there a RED 'look' file that I can set in a RED software utility that will carry across 3rd party (Adobe) post workflow solutions?"

The answer is ... sadly ... no.

There have been a few mentions from the RED on some threads about standarising a "look" file spec in the SDK - and I know I have personally banged my spoon on my high-chair for a UNIFIED FILE SPEC between camera and RED software utilities for a long time.

When the new color science appeared in Build 20 - I was sure we'd see a "look" file spec that allowed us to move from camera to software - and software to camera. But we continue to move forward with .RSX. Third parties (Clipfinder, etc.) build tools that work with .RSX.

Suddenly ... a "short term" solution becomes "default standard" - and everyone spins around it.

I'll step back a moment and spell out EXACTLY what I want. Because ... I think you want it too. I want RED to kill .RSX. Thanks, we'd have some good times ... but it's over. You need to go. It's not you .. it's me ... whatever ... it's over.

I want to be able to create a LUT in any RED software app - that can be loaded INTO THE CAMERA.

I want to be able to READ a LUT from an .R3D file header - and apply that to another shot, etc.


I want a "side-car" .XML file inside the RDC folder.

The camera would write this file on FORMAT.
The camera would write meta-data values into this .XML file during POST process when camera stops record.

Now, we have am .XML file that TRAVELS with the shot. We cab EDIT, ADD, ALTER the .XML file - and never touch the .R3D files.

SCENE, SHOT, TAKE

yeah ... you know ... the MOST IMPORTANT meta-data of narrative film's post pipeline.

We still can't put it anywhere.

If RED would standardized on a "side-car" .XML file inside the .RDC - we could all ADD whatever elements we wanted - in a fully extensible, non-destructive way.

Here is where we'd write SCENE, SHOT, TAKE. Annotate.

Third parties could adapt much faster.

Doors would open to more powerful post workflows.
 
Amen, amen and a halleluja!

We were told long ago that there would be a new look format coming that would work between all the Red tools and SDK... It can't get here soon enough. The XML inside the .RDC makes perfect sense.

RSX support is there in the SDK and FCP now allows for loading RSX files. And some third-party tools too. IMO, this is just a band-aid solution and isn't the robust solution we're all looking for.
 
Hate to pile on, but I have been evangelizing the power of metadata since the early days of the RedOne and thought it would be pretty sophisticated by now. This is a way to producers hearts and editors will buy rounds til last call if you can nail this one.

We know you can do it Red Team!

Cheers - #19
 
No need to reinvent the wheel here. You're asking for a 1d LUT. Red alluded this would be coming long ago.

This was also the major thorn in every DITs side because their main function (painting the image on set) was suddenly removed from the equation.

The fact that the first two red software packages saved look files in two different formats (RSX and RCC) hasn't helped matters. Some Red techs create looks in Redcine and walk in with their RCC files and expect we can use them for the transfer but if we arent using Recine or Scratch then that's not an option.

Bring on the LUTs please.
 
Jean Déraps said:
This would be a serious boon to the post side of things....
Click to expand...

You have nooo idea :)

Mark, thanks for posting this and I have your back on this 1000%

Jarred, for what it's worth... this is one of the little things I wanted to implement had our interview/meeting progressed further. I was too busy at the time to take it to the next level, so I apologize.
 
Shane Betts said:
...DIRECTORY/CLIP NAME, TIMECODE as well. Logging info that could be turned into bins in FCP or Avid.
Click to expand...

how about ANYTHING you want to add ... that's the beauty of XML.

Extensibility.

at any given time - you could ADD whatever field(s), value (s), note(s) you want

and YES - third parties could pull it into bins and project files VERY easily.
 
A solid idea Mark, I hope this gets done promptly! XML is really the highway to workflow
 
I like the idea about a XML. Good Idea for VFX, MOCO etc. but nothing the average user really needs. Red's metadata possibilities, and the vision to allow a true WYSIWYG workflow with a RAW system which needs a complex information transfer from the camera to the post, is the biggest obstacle people face when working with the Red1. We need to make it easy for the people. I propose 3 modes, selectable in the menu:

1. The video WYSIWYG mode: RedSpace, Fixed 320 ASA, manual WB. RC etc. render to RedSpace.

2. The film mode: RAW-View, fixed 320 (250) ASA, fixed 5000 K. RA, RC etc. render to RedLog.

3. Expert mode: Like we have it now plus a common LUT format and XML

Iridas .Look file is a LUT format that can be read by a camera (SI2K) and read and written by Nuke, SpeedGrade and perhaps others I don't know. I like the idea of a camera LUT that is also a post LUT.

-----

Personally I only use metadata for the clients monitor. I found 250 ASA and 5000K (metadata) pictures the sensor best and hence I transcode all my footage with those values, regardless which app. we use. Using the camera matadata can lead to lost information in the hightlights or unwanted noise. I'm a big fan of the RAW-View - no mistakes possible.

Hans
 
Mark - this is an excellent idea and I'd also love to be able to load project-specific metadata onto the camera from the SD card that would also be embedded into the clips and mags. Would be awesome to have an app that I could use to set up all the camera functions, project settings etc. and then when I get to the set I just load the SD and the camera would automatically set itself up with those settings. Sure would make my life a whole lot easier not having to go through a lot of settings on the camera every morning to make sure it's set up properly.
 
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