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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why not RPP's?

Roberto Lequeux said:
Ketch, would you please post a quick iPhone picture of the Duclos focus marks? Don't worry if you can't, I just haven't seen them and I am curious to see how the scales look after the botox.
Click to expand...

This was the thread he posted pictures in:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53046

Unfortunately they're gone now, probably because he moved the hosting...
Would be cool if you could fix these images, Ketch.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Ketch, would you please post a quick iPhone picture of the Duclos focus marks? Don't worry if you can't, I just haven't seen them and I am curious to see how the scales look after the botox.
Click to expand...

Jarred Land said:
Duclos is adding focus marks to those that want more marks.
Click to expand...

Adrian T. said:
Unfortunately they're gone now, probably because he moved the hosting...
Would be cool if you could fix these images, Ketch.
Click to expand...

Yes working hard on that Adrian, current server crashed, and changed to a new one, but still not in off, went with Amazon,
but now working on a completely new rebuild, and our own Server ;)


as Jarred said, I did too several times some were around here ;), Duclos and I collaborate in the amount of Focus Markings to be
added, and one of our RPP sets was the first to go in for this, Love the results and so do the DP's that have try them out so far.

Price is $2,400 for the full Set of 6 RP's, so about $400 per lens, not a Bad deal at all if you ask me, just contact Duclos,
as time frame can vary greatly depending on how Slammed they are ;)

Here you go Robert, few quickies of the 18, 25, 35mm

RPP.JPG


RPP2.JPG


RPP3.JPG
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
He he, so does all of our Gear ;)
Click to expand...

Yah that's one thing I really appreciate about Ketch ... he takes such impeccable care of his gear, even when it's used a lot it still looks brand new :)
 
Thanks to everyone for all the feedback. In the span of this thread I've gone back and forth three times. Lots of great perspectives here. I feel better suited to make up my mind now. Thanks.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
I agree with everything you say Zak ... I definitely believe there are distinct looks many DP's are going for with the high-end glass (as well as markings/ergonomics) .... and like you I tend to prefer glass with a bit more character (like Cooke ... or even somewhere in between such as Leica or Angie) ... versus super-sharp but sterile. That said, I do love a lot of what I've seen with MP's and UP's .... just not always my first choice. To me Leica/Panavision is probably ideal -- still super sharp but not quite as cool as Zeiss.

Anyway, my point about "snob appeal" was this -- there are many DP's where, even if you showed them extensive tests/charts/etc of the RPP's performing as well or ever better than these other legendary brands -- they simply would not be open to using them because it's not a prestigious lens name. I'm not saying RPP's ARE better, I'm just saying that even if they were it wouldn't matter to many DP's. Of course not all DP's are like that ... but it IS one of the reasons why RPP's are a bit more challenging to rent out IMHO. As a lens brand, Red still does not have much cache.

For instance ... imagine telling someone in the industry (or even here on the Red forum!) ... "hey I'm shooting a feature on an Epic S35 with Panavision Primos ..." -- they will be like "Whoa!" And if you substitute RPP's in there for the Primos the reaction will still be good ... but not quite be the same :)

Anthony

P.S. -- As an aside, I've appreciated how supportive Red is of other glass companies, never disparaging anyone and never speaking competitively or negatively about another lens brand being used ... that is really awesome to me.
Click to expand...

I think you're selling DP's way short. I don't know a single DP who would ignore RPP's because of snob/brand appeal. DP's get their jobs and reputation for exploiting every advantage they can get. As perhaps one of the more practical people on set, most DP's, are quite objective when it comes to gear. If there's a better lens, DP's will jump on it. The fact that loads of fully budgeted commercials are shot on RED when we often have a choice of a more expensive F35 or Alexa says DP's go to whatever product that delivers what they need. In NYC, once the workflow was smoothed out, RED became popular, snob appeal be damned, and even more so since MX. It simply does things other cameras can't. RPP's don't do things other lenses can.

They don't fly off the shelf because after a certain budget, production can afford better lenses. And at the same budget, you're up against superspeeds, panchros and standards, lenses many DP's (including me) prefer. It's that simple. I shot my last feature on RPP's because my first choice, Masters, were out of the budget. Since we were shooting 4.5k, RPP's were the next logical choice. If Superspeeds didn't vignette at 4.5k on an 18mm, I would've taken them over the RPP's in a heartbeat. All told the RPP's were great for virtually every shot. And the footage was the best I've ever shot (see link: http://www.timnaylor.com/vid_martin.html). Their weaknesses, tight lens markings on the upper range, funny flare artifacts did rear their head but we dealt with it.

Now that the new Panchros are getting around town, and cameras are getting more sensitive, it'll be interesting as to how this will effect the RPP rental market. With what we can do in color correction, warm or cool characteristics of a lens mean little to me. Mechanics, speed, weight, focus roll off, consistent color on flaring, bokeh, organic flare artifacts, and to some degree, sharpness are my priorities. The lenses character if you will. For the sub 30 grand lens set that can cover 5k, RPP's have no competition.
 
Despite your position, that's the kind of footy that will sell RPPs.

Curious about your position on RPPs vs Superspeeds...

Haven't measured either, but I'd have thought the RPPs were sharper (not that Sharper equal Better by any means...)
 
I've owned RPPs since last year and they're very good lenses. I prefer their look over superspeeds. They are very close to MPs. And honestly the warm or contrasty look that people keep talking about can easily be achieved in post. Yes. They are heavy. But damn, do they look impressive when the client is on set. Waiting for 14mm, 135mm and 180mm from Red. I'll buy them all. Without a doubt RPPs are a very good deal.


@ Tim Naylor- wow! Nice footage!
 
Thanks for the kind words.

Re: my position on Speeds vs RPP's, I think much depends on what your priorities are. Aside from the footage I cited, I tend to do a lot of shooting into light sources and I really love the effect I get from speeds in that regard. Some DP's hate it. Re: sharpness, I think the RPP's are technically sharper, but at a certain point for me, most lenses get more than sharp enough. I find myself using classic softs with RPP's alot especially on high detail wides. The 1.4 on speeds, I find a bit useless (except moments of desperation) as the lens falls apart below a 2.0. In a practical sense, the stop is the same as RPP's.

Weight is a big deal as so many clients love the camera on the shoulder and the speeds are less than half the weight. Re: Focus mechanics, I prefer Mk 3's as the focal draw seems to me and my AC's more progressive not involving such a quick snap that RPP's entail sometimes.

If I'm shooting 4.5k I find the Speeds definitely show edge fall off against flat bright backgrounds with the wide lenses. The RPP's are far better here.

And then there's the subjective part that no chart tests will ever reveal. I like the look of Speeds better, primarily in terms of the way the back ground focus falls off, flares and blurs. I find them more three dimensional. Again this becomes a matter of taste and can be argued till Lord knows when. So for now, the way I usually shoot, Speeds (and Cookes) are more my choice. But for other shoots, like the footage I did in China, the only lens that would've bested the RPP's cost three times the day rate. Also, I feel the RPP's character was an excellent match for the contrasts and depths we were shooting. We were shooting 2:35 and that format really draws attention to edge to edge fall off. And in this case, I would've preferred the RPP's even over UP's. I think many DP's have become so accustomed to creating a look on set that they may miss the advantages of having "less character" in a lens with today's grading tech.

The lenses I'm really excited to try next are the new Panchros.

Regarding lens tests, I find it so hard to glean anything useful from rez, chart, etc tests. I like seeing A/B tests that simulate real world situations and set ups. You get to see how the lens performs from a practical and aesthetic standpoint.
 
At the end of the day if you need great edge to edge (wide screen comp) and can doll up the rest in post, RPP's are a strong bet. I'll probably end up using them more because I find myself doing more and more 2:35 work. To give you an idea where I'm coming from though, Super Baltars are some of my all time faves.
 
make sure you have the most recent version of cine x installed. each version works better and is more intuitive. also, the most recent version has instructional pdf.
 
Tim sums it up pretty well. RPPs seem to suit the owner/operator, some glass just needs more love in post to get that "character" your looking for. Tim and others here have provided some steller examples. I plan on trying out the Panchros on my next shoot, curious if they really are the "Mini S4s" that they are rumored to be. I am not pixel peeper, or a charts guy...I need light, flesh, real life to test glass. We should organize a test Tim, on the EPIC perhaps. ;) Cheers.

Clay
 
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