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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why not make a speedbooster for Dragon?

Karim_Nassar

Karim_Nassar

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The Dragon sensor already has an amazing dynamic range,
with this added 1 stop of light and retaining the ability to shoot at 4k, wouldn't that make it the most amazing low light camera?
Considering how cheap and simple those adapters are, I thought I would share this idea, hope it's not stupid.
Would it work?

redspeed.jpg
 
The Dragon is already very close to FF 35mm in size and the design of the speed booster optic requires a large image circle to achieve the increase in light gathering. You would have to use medium format lenses to realize any benefit, at least on 6K, for 5K use you may be able to get something to work with full frame lenses but it probably would not be a whole stop.
 
Evin Grant said:
The Dragon is already very close to FF 35mm in size and the design of the speed booster optic requires a large image circle to achieve the increase in light gathering. You would have to use medium format lenses to realize any benefit, at least on 6K, for 5K use you may be able to get something to work with full frame lenses but it probably would not be a whole stop.
Click to expand...

That's why my idea is to have it cover 4k ;-)
I am wondering if the lenses that cover the 6k resolution will cover 4k area of the sensor post speed booster.
 
I would buy it. Makes more sense for 4k MX though… Might be a little superfluous for Dragon since it's already 1.18x crop...

Added FOV plus extra stop out weigh the potential artifacting. In fact, from the few samples I've gotten, lens artifacting actually seems less… (though that was on smaller sensors, not sure how it'd play towards the edges on an s35-to-pseudo-FF sensor).

In either case, I too wonder why it hasn't happened for APS-C DLSRs… Have you tried emailing Metabones to find out if there is some kind of technical limitation for S35/APS-C sensors and/or EF/F-mount versions of the adapters?

EDIT: Just re-read a bit of that old thread; someone suggested the limitation being the flange distance -- since mirror-less cameras have such short flange distances, the metabones adapter has enough space for the added optics while still falling in-line with whatever flange distance of the FF35 lenses used… I still think it could be done on DSMC with a different mount (as someone suggested above)… Basically make an E-mount or m43-Mount for Epic/Scarlet, and then use the metabones adapter on that.
 
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The extra light would be great with the motion mount. I dont like the loss of light on the motion mount.
 
I thought it was less than a stop on the Motion Mount? Coupled with Dragon it shouldn't be too much of an issue… On MX, that extra stop of cleanliness is usually welcomed.

I don't want to poo-poo on it, but something tells me Motion Mount + Speedbooster just wouldn't work. Too many things in front of the sensor to fit in the flange distance.
 
I emailed metabones several months ago about the possibility of both an Epic version for FF lenses and also a version to use medium format lenses on a FF sensor. Never heard anything back from them.
 
i got this when i asked

HI, S,

Sorry! We ave not speed booster for Red….

Thank you!

Alex
GBI Ltd


if they made an EF TO EF speed booster they would sell a bucket load
 
well thats that then:(

We are so sorry that this is diffcult to do that. This is not enough space between the lens and the camcorder.
Thank you so much.

Best regards
Lau
MXcamera
 
As far as i understand it, it is a matter of flange distance and backfocus. The Metabones adapters physically correct flange distance, so it works for Nikon(46,5mm)/Canon(44mm)/etc. lenses on E-Mount(18mm) and micro4/3-Mount(19,25mm) Cameras, that have a shorter flange depth than the lens you want to use and the adapter adds the neccessary distance for correct backfocus (as well as the mount itself).
The Speedbooster just adds a lens, that reduces the Fullframe Image Circle to Super35 (or whatever Format your camera uses) - kinda like a lupe.
An EF-to-EF Speedbooster would also need to correct for the doubled flange distance - because backfocus is way off - probably with an additional glass element - basically a diopter. So there would be light loss instead of gain - thereby defeating the purpose. Loss of resolution also comes into play by placing more glass between lens and sensor. Of course you would be able to use the larger imagecircle.

The Flange Distance is also the reason why there are no EF(44mm) to Nikon F(46,5mm) Adapters - because the lens is already 2,5mm too far away from the sensor (and that doesn't even takes into account the lenght the adapter would add to that) and you need an optical correction for that.
So one could theoretically built a PL(52mm) to EF-Speedbooster but most PL-Lenses - as I'm sure you know - are only Super35, so that wouldn't make any sense either.

The only way for an Epic or Scarlet I see, would be to built an EF-Mount with built in glass element that screws directly to the camera like the other DSMC-Mounts. And even then you wouldn't gain as much light because the reduction factor would be smaller, because - as already mentioned in the thread - the MX and Dragon already have larger image circles than Super35. For example the Standard-EF-Nex reduction factor of 0,7 would make FF-Lenses vignette heavily on Dragon and even MX.

I hope that clears up some of the confusion.

greetz, M
 
I would think the best option would be to use medium format lenses on the Dragon @ 6k
 
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