WHY NO CAMERA COMPANY HAS IMPLEMENTED SECURITY?

[John Brennick]

Would you be interested in developing a high technology high-priced product then taking the responsibility for it's security, 24/7 ?

With AC's, directors, producers, production companies, rental companies, shooters in the field etc. all around the world in a complete drama relying on you, and knowing someone's production day or whole project's outcome lies on your team ?

Not me personally... But then again... I'm not everyone... There are plenty of difficult businesses I wouldn't want to be a part of... But that doesn't mean someone wont find a value in it, start it up and then create something that might help even a small portion of people who have lost their camera? I'm not saying an on board gps device is the answer. Red has evolved so much in the years that they are opening themselves up to 3rd party manufacturers for apps, modules, etc... This is an amazing thing. So with that being said, the responsibility isn't necessarily on the camera company to produce this. Thats all I'm saying. The idea of some kind of solution that stems from brain storming and approaching it from an objective standpoint, is better than "well this is where we are... it's too hard..." That's literally all I'm saying. And in no way do I mean to offend anyone with my response. I'm just saying that maybe someone could come up with something because I agree that there is some kind of a need for this.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Not me personally... But then again... I'm not everyone... There are plenty of difficult businesses I wouldn't want to be a part of... But that doesn't mean someone wont find a value in it, start it up and then create something that might help even a small portion of people who have lost their camera? I'm not saying an on board gps device is the answer. Red has evolved so much in the years that they are opening themselves up to 3rd party manufacturers for apps, modules, etc... This is an amazing thing. So with that being said, the responsibility isn't necessarily on the camera company to produce this. Thats all I'm saying. The idea of some kind of solution that stems from brain storming and approaching it from an objective standpoint, is better than "well this is where we are... it's too hard..." That's literally all I'm saying. And in no way do I mean to offend anyone with my response. I'm just saying that maybe someone could come up with something because I agree that there is some kind of a need for this.

I completely agree on the potential usefulness of the solution, just considering area of focus of the company and repercussions. I was one of the people suggesting this years back, it might have been on one of DVXuser Thinktanks, before Reduser existed.

This is a high-risk & high-stakes matter. It would require special r&d for the technology and completely dedicated 24/7 service, prepared to tackle highly stressful and potentially dangerous matters. Some shooting days cost more than the camera. Some thiefs are not just pickpocket type. Some locations have poor/no signal. Some in the industry tend to be drama queens. Good luck to the 24/7 available team
dealing with clients flipping out on the field.

This would be best left in the hands of security experts, not camera developer. Once you find the location for a stolen high priced gear, what next ? This is not an iPhone, a consumer device found on the street or in the bus. Sleeping well if the customer decides to get his own device back ? Who gets to blame if someone gets beaten, stabbed or worse ? Someone decides to transfer guilt and seek reimbursement ? Just saying...

 

[prakash d]

Mr. Newman,
If a camera has parted from its owner, it may be better the camera stay online to keep generating IP targets, in terms of future retrieval. A hard passcode would essentially brick the camera, at which point the camera may simply get tossed.

I agree that camera generating IP targets has a value in retrieval.

Only issue is, if the camera is shipped overseas, then its hard to retrieve. A passcode would disable the camera.

So in essence, a combination of generating IP address + Locking Camera with Hard Password or Remote Disabling would solve the problem.

Come to think of it, it looks like iPhone does similar thing if I'm not wrong.

 

[M.Halsell]

It would be risky for Joe Consumer to risk life and limb for camera gear. But in the case of an insurance that paid a claim on equipment, they now legally own that equipment. There may be some motivation and means at that level. But Hrvoje I agree, foolish or naive behavior is generally not rewarded.

Until then, I guess the takeaway is to be as safe and cautious with our gear as humanly possible, until a golden solution arrives.

 

[prakash d]

Also I think, people give great suggestions on forums like this. But may be difficult to get noticed by company folk.

So speaking directly to the Customer Service helps. I have no contacts.

If there is a feature request form or something like that, it would be great to send a request.

Or I may be I'm late to the party, and people may have already suggested these solutions before.

 

[Nick Gardner]

In 25+ years in the industry, never had a camera stolen. Only times I've heard about it happening, it was due to someone being dumb. Camera left in a car, unwatched, etc. Ever once in a blue moon you hear about a real break in and robbery, but that's extremely rare. It's just not that big of a deal.

Nick

 

[prakash d]

In 25+ years in the industry, never had a camera stolen. Only times I've heard about it happening, it was due to someone being dumb. Camera left in a car, unwatched, etc. Ever once in a blue moon you hear about a real break in and robbery, but that's extremely rare. It's just not that big of a deal.

Nick

My Microphone got stolen once. Also if you have busy days, its gets tough keep tracking of everything.

So a great answer is: Be careful instead of feeling bad later.

But I think there are real cases of stolen cameras, which is really unfortunate.

 

[Björn Benckert]

In 25+ years in the industry, never had a camera stolen. Only times I've heard about it happening, it was due to someone being dumb. Camera left in a car, unwatched, etc. Ever once in a blue moon you hear about a real break in and robbery, but that's extremely rare. It's just not that big of a deal.

Nick

Maybe you should listen more because its something that happens and quite a lot. And also when people don't heave dumb. As late as last night there was several lenses and cameras stolen over here. How it happen? Well the thieves made their way in late at night through the ventilation system with angle cutters and managed to get away with helium, alexa mini, hawks etc. Most likely they been scouting the place and know exactly what they where doing. Even though the room they got into did not have highest security it had bar doors like a good prisson and the way they entered was more than a little bit intricate.

I think high end lenses and cameras are in a totally different demand now, before you needed to afford the film and developing costs, that keeped the cameras quite uninteresting for most people, now thats not the case. Any kid that found joy in shooting with his iPhone, 5D or Gopro understands that life would be instantly so much more fun if he got his hand on a RED or alexa and a set of cooke anamorphics... And compared to cars, or other expansive stuff it´s not really a lot of things that match the value in such a small and handy format as film gear. A set of lenses that fits in a suite case can be worth well over 100k USD. what other goods, that you can easily move across boarders etc and is so common and has such prices and are not really registered or demand a license plate?

I think if the r3d stk would include a ping home to check if stolen, if so dump ip adress at RED server, would be a good start. All other programs I use ping home like mad so I would not mind if red cine and the other NLE´s tried to do the same in the background on every two hundred rendered r3d or such. Sure the thieves would find out about it but it would limit their chanced to rent out stolen gear quite a bit.


Personally I lost our RED Dragon a while back and it´s more than frustrating as I know for a fact who took it and I got picture proof there of and still the cops here do nothing. An Ip adress would help I think.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

However, again, to just say "nah.. someone will work they're way around it" just seems like taking the easy road... Something never exists until someone invents it... Then... it becomes the most useful tool they've had. Just my 2 cents.

Exactly. It's weird how photographers and DPs seem to consistently shoot down such a reasonable idea. Hashtag Not All, but it's not just that people aren't enthused about the idea, it's the fact that they are so vehemently against the mere suggestion of the idea.

There are some unworkable (though admirable) ideas today: solar roadways, hyperloops, that kind of thing. There are scientists and engineers who have actually shown why and how these cannot work. They did not just dismiss them out-of-hand to show how smart they are.

Personally I lost our RED Dragon a while back and it´s more than frustrating as I know for a fact who took it and I got picture proof there of and still the cops here do nothing. An Ip adress would help I think.

Swedish police are getting more like that these days, from what I hear. But RED does have serial number registration, right? So the person who stole the camera cannot sell it, because the buyer will try to register it under his name, and that will fail. That might not be sophisticated but it is something and it costs almost nothing to implement.

My idea is that security is optional. The scheme is based on encryption: the camera always functions, even with security enabled. The files are encrypted, and can be decrypted on a computer before importing to an editor. The processing power is the problem, but for cinema/video cameras, perhaps only frame rates below 30fps need to be encrypted.

The principle of good security, which applies to all technology, rests on two axioms:

1. Lots of small barriers are better than one big barrier

2. Security has to be just enough and does not have to be perfect or cover every aspect of the system

I believe in stringent criticism of all ideas - whether it's the need for 4K or the need for digital or the need for proper lenses or the need for film or the need for RAW, etc. etc. But I really am tired of dismissal of the sake of it. Grow up or fuck off.

 

[Elsie N]

I think any solution has to be a third party solution.

It just seems to me that any camera company is opening itself up to legal trouble if they get involved in identifying "stolen" gear. For one thing, you are trusting that the reporter actually is the owner of the gear.

scenario: Couple is getting a divorce and wife gets everything including camera. Husband reports camera as stolen so he can find where wife and new boyfriend have taken the camera. Ex husband then goes there and shoots them both... and gets divorce settlement camera back.

Dead lovers families sue camera company for telling estranged husband their location.

REDuser thread started and 90% of the responses side with estranged husband getting his camera back... the other 10%, when polled, turns out to just be REDuser lurkers who don't own a camera. '-)