Why I wouldn't recommand RED for features

[Marco Graziaplena]

To Blair & Jonas:
I don't want to select a different camera system... I'm just saying to change something on RED cameras to be more "user friendly"... I like very much RED otherwise I wouldn't spend the whole evening answering those posts!

 

[Alex Carr]

1. Block Batteries and hot swap plates. Turn the camera on in the morning, turn it off at lunch.

2. Block batteries have 24v.

3. down converters are usually standard in most Steadicam ops kit.

4. Handheld is not hard to configure.

I agree with you on #6.

I think you need a 1st AC better experienced with the Red and known accessories and practices. Everything youve mentioned is 100% avoidable. A good rental house will have many of the options you desire.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

To Blair & Jonas:
I don't want to select a different camera system... I'm just saying to change something on RED cameras to be more "user friendly"... I like very much RED otherwise I wouldn't spend the whole evening answering those posts!

Im sorry you have had such a bad experience.. but to the same tune with everyone else.. most of your issues are non-existent. switching to false color during the middle of the take = completely avoidable.. disable that user button..(1st AC should have the camera prepped ahead of time)

90sec boot time... for feature film making this is really not an issue..
I have never been on a set where they were like.. "QUICK FIRE IT UP AND LETS GET THIS SHOT THAT IS HAPPENING IN THE NEXT 4 SECONDS"

PLUS.. if its for framing purposes.. the camera comes to life in 5 seconds with picture.

but regardless.. keep the camera on all day if you want.. its really easy to do so.

granted.. if your just using an out of the box straight from RED bare bones camera system.. things will be tougher on you. but that is why there are so many smart companies with excellent red support (element technica, able cine.. so on)
I can see you enjoy the camera somewhat.. but the thread title is a harsh and unfounded opinion
hopefully you have a better experience next time..

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Marco needs to read a little. If you want to find excuses just call your girlfriend and she'll be glad to nod and agree with whatever you say. then you can trade in your Red One to "upgrade" up to a Varicam!!! Weee!!! lol... Does your paycheck say Panasonic? :thumbsup:

Seriously though... Have you heard about dynamic range, color reproduction and detail? That might be a few good things to start the other side of the pros and cons list with.

And keep in mind that there is a new camera coming out like now which will address many of your issues. And Red Ones are taken in by Red at full value for an upgrade the the new ones... I mean... I just don't get where you are coming from. If you said film that is one thing, but you didn't.

 

[Stefan Christou]

Wow you guys really took that list seriously. :coolgleamA:

 

[Cail Young]

I have never been on a set where they were like.. "QUICK FIRE IT UP AND LETS GET THIS SHOT THAT IS HAPPENING IN THE NEXT 4 SECONDS"

I have - camera truck arrives at 0830, day exterior, it starts snowing and the DOP wants the camera and an 18mm for a landscape shot NOW.

Took us longer to sprint up the hill to the position than it did for the camera to boot.

 

[jimhare]

I think it was more the shock of that list being the cause of someone saying "Why I wouldn't recommend RED for features"

Wow you guys really took that list seriously. :coolgleamA:

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Multiple features with:

Every piece of AKS that needed to work getting it's power from the red system one way or the other. (this includes but is not limited to: Wireless FF, Cinetape, Down-converter + wireless SD or simply wireless HD.)

Handheld to tripod... maybe 15 seconds.

EVF.... hasn't been on a Israeli arm in over a year.

I only shut the camera down when I want to or make a mistake.

Boot time is a drag. Nothing new and there is no one here that will say that they don't want a faster boot. However, it does take very little to move into the practice of booting in advance. If we are headed into a location, on the way in just simply hit the power button. When the camera lands it is magically ready.

Simply put we have heard your points. They are valid, however most of them have already been "solved." So rather than seeking out solutions you come here and make dismissive declarative statements. It is a natural reaction on many peoples part to respond with short declarative answers.

 

[Andrew clemson]

Sorry to hear you're not loving the camera.

If your rental house doesnt supply a better option, I would suggest you buy the Zacuto EVF mount for your own benefit. Its not perfect, but its only a couple of hundred dollars and is infinitely better than the magic arms.

 

[Bob Gruen]

I'm shooting a feature with it right now...

You guys at RED are doig a terrific job and probably changing the ways of making movies but you need to correct a couple of things:

1- Switching on the camera

I have an A/C power supply, 3 Red Bricks, charger, and a battery belt clip. My HMIs and flos take much longer to spool up.

2- Batteries

3 hours on a charge is a problem???

3- Hand held

I built a bracket that holds a pro LCD up front next to the Mattebox. Granted it's custom but you can achieve the same thing with a little Red hardware. I don't even own a viewfinder.

4- No 24V out

There are 12V accessories out there, or 24V batts with leads. First you say battery life isn't long enough then you say I want to pile a bunch of load on it. You make no sense.

5- SD video out

Why would you want it? A simple HDMI cable and a $130 HD TV and you have your director's monitor. The camera records the footage (that's its job) and the computer extracts to any format you want (that's its job).


Let's be honest: Why I wouldn't recommend RED for features -> "Because I know film and I don't want to have to learn anything new"

 

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

I've heard people complain about the startup time, but if it's just one minute how is this really a big problem on a professional shoot? I mean I'm just trying to think about it myself here, but in my mind I can't really recall on any of my shoots a time where we needed to turn the camera on and were immediately ready to roll. Usually we are waiting on something to be tweaked, a lighting setup, last-second makeup, going over a line or something like that. If it's just about 60 seconds to startup, I really can't see this being much of a problem to most people...? I would just assume on a feature film that it's the last thing that would be a concern because you'd just anticipate it and it's only one minute, there is so much setup anyway you'd just have it on by the time you were ready to roll right?

 

[Andrae Palmer]

HaHa.... I guess the grips can do lighting in 60 seconds or less. The talent can also be ready in 60 seconds or less. The gaffer can run electricity in 60 seconds or less. They have a super fast set.

 

[Shawn Booth]

Consider for a moment that all film cameras switch on - immediately. Most digital cameras are ready in less than 60 sixty seconds. It takes time for change to take affect. Try to understand that. People are used to and comfortable with not having to wait on camera... And time IS money, even a minute can be costly. Crews are not used to waiting on camera. Camera moves silently and quickly. Rare is the time camera holds up production...

The boot time for the RED blows. It's one of a kind in this regard as well. But I'll take it for what I get.

But don't forget, the new lines of cameras are estimated to boot in about 2 seconds.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Consider for a moment that all film cameras switch on - immediately. Most digital cameras are ready in less than 60 sixty seconds. It takes time for change to take affect. Try to understand that. People are used to and comfortable with not having to wait on camera... And time IS money, even a minute can be costly. Crews are not used to waiting on camera. Camera moves silently and quickly. Rare is the time camera holds up production...

The boot time for the RED blows. It's one of a kind in this regard as well. But I'll take it for what I get.

But don't forget, the new lines of cameras are estimated to boot in about 2 seconds.

How long does it take to load a film camera and check the gate?

 

[Shawn Booth]

How long does it take to load a film camera and check the gate?

Less than the time it takes for the RED to boot...

Both tasks can be completed in under 40 seconds most of the time. A lot of the time, reloading is done when other things are in motion. The 2nd AC knows at all times how much film is left in the mag. They also know the run time of the take roughly and attempt to reload right before moving the camera to the next set up, usually before the actors even clear the set. I wouldn't say camera reloading holds things up though. But even if it does hold things up, it's so fast no one bothers going to craft service while it is happening... "Camera's booting" is the perfect time to visit crafty, smoke, 10-1, adjust some lights and get a Coke.

Checking the gate only holds up moving on to the next set up or going home. It doesn't take a full sixty seconds to complete. IMO, this doesn't compare to the RED's boot time. I do see your point in that it takes time...

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Checking the gate only holds up moving on to the next set up or going home. It doesn't take a full sixty seconds to complete. IMO, this doesn't compare to the RED's boot time. I do see your point in that it takes time...

With film that's a process that has to be done quite often and with RED the boot time could only be every few hours if using batteries with a dual mount. I guess depending on your setup the boot time can be limited only to once.

 

[Douglas Underdahl]

Well I think the boot time is a drag, to a certain extent. But I made up a hot swap dual battery mount, and that along with six 90 watt hour batteries and the RED ac adapter means that downtime or waiting time with my RED is much shorter than with the Arri 35BL that I used to own. MUCH shorter.

 

[Joel J. Feigenbaum]

Yes, we all would like a shorter boot time on RED One. And as others have said, we can expect a much quicker boot time on future RED cameras. But having been on film sets for 30 years, in the course of a shoot day, we wait on each department for different reasons (all valid) many times a day during or between set-ups and takes. An actor's make-up needs a touch up. Hair has to remedy an errant fly-away. Sound needs to re-load (these days meaning format a new optical disk). Noisy film mag that needs to be changed out. Noisy crew talking or walking around on a set during a take. An actor walks on the set wearing the wrong wardrobe. Need to shoot another take because the mic dropped in the shot or we see the boom shadow. Props need to match food for take two, re-fill water glasses, match candle height. A light blows. Grips need to fix a squeaky dolly. Someone didn't turn off their CELL PHONE DURING A TAKE!!!!!!!!!!!! And the dreaded -- an actor can't remember or never learned their lines.

To cite a 1 minute boot-up time for RED is absurd. If that is the biggest problem on a set all day long, I'll take 60 RED boot-ups over any of the other normal delays that happen every day on the set.

 

[Dan Blanchett]

Maybe this was mentioned already in this thread, but ever since I got my Switronix hotswap mount, I typically leave the camera on all day, rotating four batteries out. Avoids the whole power down/power up (unless the camera gets too hot). And now that you can format drives with version 5 of R3D manager, you don't need to lose anytime between shots.

Dan

 

[Michael Hastings]

Well I think the boot time is a drag, to a certain extent. But I made up a hot swap dual battery mount, and that along with six 90 watt hour batteries and the RED ac adapter means that downtime or waiting time with my RED is much shorter than with the Arri 35BL that I used to own. MUCH shorter.

Was that Anton bauer 90s or what? I'm looking for a more reliable and travel friendly solution for my RED/ underwater housing setups.