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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why Epic Makes Me Happy!!

If the Epic were just a Red, but smaller and lighter (as it is) with no other new features, I would still REALLY want one for 30K, even 40K.

A heavy camera does add up expenses via crew time and support gear. A more expensive Steadicam, shorter continuous shoot times possible from your Steadicam op, then you have more counterweights on your jib, which takes more crew energy to haul around, the camera itself uses more crew energy to haul around. These things add up to fewer shots per day (days where there are many other expenses running, like rented locations, street permits, etc, etc.), and the need for more crew. I think a certain number of shoots later, you've just paid for your Epic, in full.
 
Frank Weeks said:
As a shooter that often works alone the biggest thing about Epic in it's smallness. I know it's only 5 pounds to me but that's hugh. Oh and all that other stuff rocks too:}
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Yeah.

I get tired of the pimped up red on a geared head. I like seeing the mobile 5K machines. To me RED is and has always been about creative freedom that means capturing 5K at the end of the earth with a small setup or making it the centerpiece of a 150 person crew.

I love seeing EPIC in the tiny config. 10 x 64GIG cards, a bunch of batteries in a photographers vest along with some lightwieght stills glass. That opens up the world of film making and puts it to a new level.

David
 
Rob Ruffo said:
If the Epic were just a Red, but smaller and lighter (as it is) with no other new features, I would still REALLY want one for 30K, even 40K.

A heavy camera does add up expenses via crew time and support gear. A more expensive Steadicam, shorter continuous shoot times possible from your Steadicam op, then you have more counterweights on your jib, which takes more crew energy to haul around, the camera itself uses more crew energy to haul around. These things add up to fewer shots per day (days where there are many other expenses running, like rented locations, street permits, etc, etc.), and the need for more crew. I think a certain number of shoots later, you've just paid for your Epic, in full.
Click to expand...

It's not just the weight of the camera that requires more ancillaries. The extended DR, low noise floor, RAW format,and lens options open more ways to light and expose a scene. That could mean fewer lights, rigs, power, crew, permits, etc. Set ups would be faster. Having more options can give you the choice of doing without.
 
David Battistella said:
Yeah.

I get tired of the pimped up red on a geared head. I like seeing the mobile 5K machines. To me RED is and has always been about creative freedom that means capturing 5K at the end of the earth with a small setup or making it the centerpiece of a 150 person crew.

I love seeing EPIC in the tiny config. 10 x 64GIG cards, a bunch of batteries in a photographers vest along with some lightwieght stills glass. That opens up the world of film making and puts it to a new level.

David
Click to expand...

I have to say that this is what excited me too.

The value of the DSLR rigs is their ability to be small light and fast... and of course dirt cheap.

We all know the downsides- resolution, moire, audio issues etc.

Then there are all the other technical things you guys have brought up.

1080p clean out to a ProRes recorder will be a huge workflow boon for a lot of my projects. Every project that can't deal with or use RED RAW, will be very happy with what goes out to an AJA KiPro or NanoFlash.

1080p to h.264 proxies will be a similar boon for almost all my projects as a dailies deliverable. Plus- remote monitoring with an iPad or the like... F$CK YEAH.

The EPIC is the compromise free DSLR video revolution. Scarlet extends that deeply and profoundly into the indy film space. But not deeply enough.

The 2/3" Scarlets do go deeper into the indie space... but they lack a key feature... S35 sensor size. It appears they will use all the modules available to the Scarlet S35 products... so they are almost perfect.

Now, the market has changed in the middle of RED trying to change it.

So, I'd ask RED to make a Scarlet S35 3K camera with a target price right near the 2/3" brain. In fact it should essentially be the 2/3" Interchangeable Scarlet, but with an S35 sized sensor.

Such a camera could reuse a lot of RED's investment in the S35 system, including all the modules and mounts. In fact I'd argue that the less redevelopment of the system the better.

It would be a real entry point into the RED ecosystem and professional cinematography.

Right now I have full kits for an EPIC (plus keeping a RED One) and two of the 2/3" interchangeables on my things to buy list. For me, being able to stay S35 would be nice. I probably wouldn't buy any more full kits... but I'd add two S35 brains to the shopping list. (I really want the 2/3" sensor for 3D and for possible use as 2/3" ENG kits.)

PS. while making a wish list, I'd love to see an EPIC version of the 2/3" cameras, that and a b4 lens adapter announcement.
 
OK.

I'm gonna say it.

Why Scarlett at all?

A 2/3" requires specialty glass.

an S35 competes with EPIC.

I guess the only thing would be form factor, but really, who wants to shoot 3K when there is 5K floating around. I don't buy the intercut arguement.

I'd rather see the continued maturing of RED ONE -X and EPIC and REDCINE-X being further developed into a tight workflow for professionals.

I don't see how it will wedge into the market with so many cameras in the category.

David
 
David Battistella said:
OK.


I guess the only thing would be form factor, but really, who wants to shoot 3K when there is 5K floating around. I don't buy the intercut arguement.

David
Click to expand...

There are a lot of times when I need deep depth of field and the 2/3" Scarlet is perfect for that. While 5k would be nice I think you might run into problems putting that many pixels on a small sensor.
 
David Battistella said:
OK.

I'm gonna say it.

Why Scarlett at all?

A 2/3" requires specialty glass.

an S35 competes with EPIC.

I guess the only thing would be form factor, but really, who wants to shoot 3K when there is 5K floating around. I don't buy the intercut arguement.

I'd rather see the continued maturing of RED ONE -X and EPIC and REDCINE-X being further developed into a tight workflow for professionals.

I don't see how it will wedge into the market with so many cameras in the category.

David
Click to expand...

Yikes... at least for some of us, price has a little to do with it. Epic is out of my league. Even if I stretched for RED One, I would prefer the modularity and various other features promised in Scarlet. Even if I have to "Settle for" 3K instead of 4.5 or 5. Please, don't even suggest dumping Scarlet!! :yikes:
 
David Battistella said:
OK.

I'm gonna say it.

Why Scarlett at all?

A 2/3" requires specialty glass.

an S35 competes with EPIC.

I guess the only thing would be form factor, but really, who wants to shoot 3K when there is 5K floating around. I don't buy the intercut arguement.

I'd rather see the continued maturing of RED ONE -X and EPIC and REDCINE-X being further developed into a tight workflow for professionals.

I don't see how it will wedge into the market with so many cameras in the category.

David
Click to expand...

I think the Scarlet name should be for the 2/3" cams only. That would give you fixed and interchangeable lens Scarlets.

And the S35 Scarlet should be called Epic. Having a Scarlet S35 model dilutes the Epic name.
 
Robert Frank said:
I think the Scarlet name should be for the 2/3" cams only. That would give you fixed and interchangeable lens Scarlets.

And the S35 Scarlet should be called Epic. Having a Scarlet S35 model dilutes the Epic name.
Click to expand...

small = scarlet
med = r1-mx
large = Epic


makes sense to me. but what about the glass investment? you can use same glass on r1-mx and epic not really true for scarlet. closed system when it comes to glass.

david
 
The only thing that would kill the new Arri cams would be a prores module.
Or better the H-264 module with a switch on it that allows you to record Pro Res or H-264 or even both.
H-264 wireless to the I-pads for on set viewing and recording Pro Res at the same time.
End of post hassle for the uninformed. End of questions. End of blablabla.

Do this RED and you take out the fire of the Alexa right at the beginning.
Don't get me wrong, I really love Arri. I own a Arri stuff and it's perfect.
Their Pro Res approach is big time for production companies. The RED post workflow is still far from perfect (maybe CS-5 will change that).
People dont want to convert, batch and relink stuff like crazy.

Pro Res could change that.
Make this an option and you will be the king of the hill. No questions asked.

Ah and yes, bring on stage 2. Cant wait guys.

Keep on rocking.

Tim
 
Many of us agree with you Tim. Yet the people of Red don't seem to get it. They talk about file sizes... they announce a module that offers recording the same format as the Canon DSLR's and gee I can watch it on an Ipad too. They say “buy a rocket”. Yet no Pro Res Module to allow the Epic to compete with the Alexa Market. Many producers shooting the Broadcast Camera/Pro35 combo will quickly move to Alexa. It's a shame really, they might have moved to Epic. I have many clients that shot film and embrace the Red’s film style post production, others exist in the world of Video and there is no way they are going to transcode. This group seems to be very hot on Alexa. It's sad that those producers may very well miss Red completely. Time will tell.

Please Red, Give us our Pro Res Module.
 
I'd want a more universal codec than pro res especially if apple is going to continue along the road it has recently. And the scarlet 2/3 is just fine and a perfect niche camera, I herd others describe it like this but I feel people will see these sizes as different brushes a painter has to use, or different clubs in a golf bag. I find it funny how people want to obsolete 2/3 without even considering the many markets that they are geared towards and built for. Each camera has it's place in this world and many people will find amazing ways to use them all differently I think at this point we just need to relax and see what they are like when they finally hit the market. I couldn't imagine working a doc with little to no crew and trying to pull my own focus during the most important spontaneous moment of the film while using a ff35 camera (now I know that ff35 seems like excess for doc work but people will try it and with small crews).

and lets be honest If I was a millionaire and had assistants and cash coming out my... well you know I would understand why people might think the scarlet line is pointless. But for all those who are just getting into the field or scraping by in the industry and want something that will give them that edge without bankrupting them it's the best thing since non linear editing.

mah to each their own, sorry for the pointless rant.
 
The other thing that was talked about was a more compressed version of REDCODE that would allow for RT editing in FCP or AVID or Lightworks or Premiere or Vegas.

By lowering the quality and data rate you could edit possibliy edit Realtime.

I'm not so sure they can't do a PRORES modle for RED but I was really curious to hear H.264 after many posts about its "quality".

We don't know what it look like yet, but I am wondering if the RED flavour of H.264 will somehow be a much better quality.

I do believe that REDCODE RAW is far easier to access as an online codec than ARRIRAW.

David
 
Prorez belongs to someone else. RED would have to license it, and that would cost serious bucks. Also I agree that I prefer codes that can cross different software with little or no effort.

The best solution would be a RED type file that needs no debayering. It just comes rendered to 1080p or 720 in the color space and adjustments the camera had.

Support would be across all major platforms. I would not mind waiting a little while for that. Then we'd have a better codec that everyone could use. H.264 is ok, but very very compressed. I think RED could improve on this. I'm sure Adobe, Avid, and Vegas would pick up the ball quickly and get it supported. As for Apple.. You never know with those guys.

Jay
 
Prores was chosen for a reason.

FCP is the most widely used software in the world. It also is a 4444 editing codec.

I don't think RED has to reinvent the wheel. They need to be as compatible as possible, which is why they probably went with H.264

David
 
Bob Rudis;600808Yet the people of Red don't seem to get it. [/QUOTE said:
I bet they get it...I bet once they get these cameras actually released, we'll see lots and lots of module options. They pretty much have listened very closely to every suggestion ever made on this forum. Somehow, I don't they're not getting this one. But there is that nagging little matter of getting the camera built and in circulation...
Click to expand...
 
I wouldnt mind seeing a module that would go direct to cineform. Its cross platform, the SI-2K shoots it as well. It can also transcode and unify many different formats under one cross platform codec. This is where I think Alexa will fall, specifically because you cant cut on a windows system unless you have something that can encode and decode prores. big shortcoming in my mind.
 
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