Why do you need a matte box if you're not using a matte?

[Peter Hodgins]

The title says it all ... is the built in hood not good enough? Also do you need filters if you're shooting raw? We all have total light control on the set ... right?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

You still need ND filters outside in sunlight, and sometimes want to use a Pola.

Matteboxes also act as a lens shade.

In frontal sunlight on a clear day, the "Sunny 16" rule of photography tells you that at 50 ASA, with a 1/50th shutter, the light level is f/16. Hence why you need ND filters since the camera is closer to 320 ASA.

 

[Peter Hodgins]

So we need a matte box to hold filters? Not mattes. I guess we can do the work of a matte via software while shooting and in post. Is the built in lens shade on RPP's enough to stop glare? If not, why not?

 

[Andy Jarosz]

Because they make the camera look extra awesome.

Seriously.

 

[David Rasberry]

Matte boxes also act as lens shades to block light from entering the lens from extreme angles not included in the field of view. This increases contrast and reduces optical issues due to internal reflections. A screw on sunshade can do the same.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

The name "mattebox" is somewhat archaic, that's all. Back in the early days of Hollywood, in-camera multi-pass compositing was accomplished by using black hold-out mattes in front of the lens and behind the lens -- if you've ever seen a 35mm Mitchell camera, it's practically a Swiss Army knife in that regards, you can do all sorts of in-camera effects.

Now it just describes a rigid lens shade that takes rectangular / square filters in slots, as opposed to screw-on or clamp-on round filters with rubber shades. Use whatever works best for you.

 

[Dan Hudgins]

mattes

mattes

You still use the rectangular mattes for 'Scope, 1.85, 16:9 ratio in a 4:3 mattebox or 16:9 matte box to reduce the stray light.

Also a normal sunshde on a lens is not far enough away from the front of the lens to give a clean cutoff, you need the matte for the lens focal length to be at least about 9 inches away (6+ times the width of the front element).

Another advantage of using the matte box is that the "black" you get from the rectangular matte slide in front is blacker than black paint or flocking can be without it and gives more contrast.

You still need to use colored filters, ND, and IR cut in the filter holders as well as various kinds of diffusion because you cannot get the same look using digital filters.

You need colored filters because if you white balance in software you reduce the sensors dynamic range by clipping you also end up with more noise in the images, for good results use optical filters with more lights rather than digital shortcuts that degrade the image quality.

You cannot get the same effects with digital diffusion because the sensor does not have the same dynamic range as the subject, when you use diffusion in front of the lens you take advantage of the brightness ranges above the sensor clipping points.

For cinematic lighting you need to shoot into light with the fixture just out of the frame, the only way to do that without some direct light hitting the lens is with a good matte box, the right rectangular matte slide for the ratio you are shooting, and flags between the camera and light sources.

 

[Noah Kadner]

Yup- an absolute essential piece of kit for a professional camera rig. Also- what built-in hood are you talking about? The RED has none.

Noah

 

[Peter Hodgins]

... block light from entering the lens from extreme angles not included in the field of view.

I don't get this .... how can light enter, not from the field of view?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Off-camera lights can still flare a lens.

 

[David Rasberry]

I don't get this .... how can light enter, not from the field of view?

The field of view is the limit of your composition. But the lens can accept light from more extreme angles than what you actually want to record. This extraneous light isn't part of your image but can through diffusion and internal reflections within the lens cause things like lens flares, chromatic anomalies and reduced contrast.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Obviously a sunshade or a mattebox would only work on cutting flare from lights outside the frame anyway -- if the light source was inside the field of view of the lens, the sunshade or mattebox would also have to be inside the view of the lens as well in order to cut that light.

 

[ericyoung]

I don't get this .... how can light enter, not from the field of view?

Remember a lens accepts a circular field of view, but the camera only records a rectangular portion of it. Light outside the rectangular portion is still hitting the lens and can bounce around inside.

 

[Wesley Scoggins]

Think of how Anamorphic flares are created, they get a light source off to the side, and shine it into the lens at an angle that the camera can't see.

In the new "Star Trek", J.J. Abrams was standing over next to the camera shaking a flashlight around to get those constant flaring effects.

It's the same basic concept, light hitting your lens at a weird angle can cause flares and weird internal reflections, matte boxes allow you to control the light hitting your camera more efficiently.

 

[Emyr R. E. Pugh]

The best way I’ve found to describe the use of a matte box is by means of a comparison between still photography and cinematography. All photography, be it still or motion, hinges around controlling light to attain a desired exposure. This is done through manipulating the three points of the Exposure Triangle, i.e. aperture, shutter speed and ISO (ASA), each of which can have a subtle or drastic effect on the resulting image (in terms of depth of field, motion characteristics and grain).

It’s generally much easier for a still photographer to control light than it is for a cinematographer. Say, for example, that you are photographing a subject in bright natural light and you want an extremely shallow depth of field. You can easily do this by setting your aperture wide open and then controlling the light entering the lens by adjusting shutter speed to suit (or even ISO on a DSLR).

Take the same situation and replace the still camera with a motion picture camera and everything changes. So, if you’re filming the same outdoor scene with a 1/48 shutter at twenty-four frames a second and you’ve already selected your wide-open aperture and your ISO/ASA, what do you do if there’s too much light? You can’t stop down your aperture or you’ll lose the shallow depth of field you wanted, so you’re left with only two options; change your ISO or film stock or change the shutter speed. But if you change your shutter speed you’ll drastically affect the motion characteristics of what you shoot and changing the ISO/film stock will affect your grain/contrast levels. The visual effects of altering any one of the points on the exposure triangle are far more ‘visible’ in a moving image than they are in a still photograph and they are things over which cinematographers need to have complete control. This is where a matte box is an absolutely essential tool for a cinematographer but of very little use to a photographer, because it gives you an additional level of control over the light getting into the lens by allowing you to filter out or block off excess or unwanted light respectively.

To me, personally, it is an invaluable tool for fine-tuning exposure and for adding various subtle optical effects that don’t quite end up looking the same if you just add them in post.

 

[Ken Willinger]

Is the built in lens shade on RPP's enough to stop glare?

The RPPs do not come with a built in lens shade. They come with front and rear lens caps, only for protection while not in use.

 

[mjeppsen]

Big camera = Happy client

Big camera = Happy client

Because they make the camera look extra awesome.

Seriously.

I couldn't agree more, Andy. I recently posted a short article on exactly this topic...dressing your shooting rig to look more more professional. As Red One rigs tend to run large, it's less of an issue. But for anyone shooting with DSLRs, and the forthcoming Red Scarlet, appearances really do matter to the client/agency. Quoting my own post:

"This new breed of compact camera systems are tiny in comparison to traditional broadcast and what the public considers to be “professional” gear. In many cases, this small size is an advantage…documentary work sometimes requires a stealthy presence, so this diminutive size is a huge advantage in that field of production. But for people working in other levels of production, bigger is, at times, better for appearances."

I hate that this matters to some clients, but it's my observation that it does matter, a lot. So I say exploit that little quirk of human nature to your benefit, and go buy a huge mattebox.

 

[George A.]

Matteboxes in general are incredibly over-rated.

I see people who have older lenses use big matteboxes to pimp up their cameras. Mostly it's just about showing off. Rather stupidly, I might add.

For Cooke Speed Panchro, Zeiss Standard Speed and Superspeed (and other older glass), regular 4x4 filters do the job just well. Yet I keep seeing people use big filters and big matteboxes, spending thousands of dollars in the process.

It's not only their fault, many vendors/sellers/manufacturers say you MUST ABSOLUTELY use 4x4.5 filters or 6x6 or sizes like that, when in fact you only need smaller sizes.

Heck - I used 3x3 filters with Zeiss Superspeeds with absolutely no vignetting. Both 3x3 matteboxes and filters are dirt cheap. However, for some reason, people are afraid to show up on set with "cheap" stuff like that. Not to mention screw-on filters and shades, which do the job equally well.

Of course, newer glass (which is much bigger in size) needs big filters. But my advice - don't spend thousands and thousands of dollars if your glass doesn't require it. Forget about showing off, and concentrate on telling your story.

 

[Bob Gruen]

The selection of aperture is part of the art of cinematography, controlling the depth of focus. I am often surprised to see Red Footage that looks video-ish because the operator does not understand this. Just slapping on a zoom lens and shooting is a real waste of what the camera can do. If you don't understand this then I'd suggest taking a course in SLR photography.

To properly set the 'program' you adjust the duration (to control smear), aperture (I like it below 4, usually in the 2s), and ASA. Messing with the ASA setting is slow and may not yield the best result as you are asking software to tame excess amounts of light that is striking the sensor. That being the case you need to use ND filters to control the amount of light that hits the sensor because you cannot always control the base light level of a shooting location. Some lenses (still camera lenses for example) will take screw on ND filters while other lenses have no facility for this and must have filters mounted in a matte box. I have a .3, .6, and .9 for all of my lenses.

The sensor also has a range light levels that it is good for (M-X will greatly improve this), so if you are outside a graduated ND filter mounted in a matte box can tame the sky and allow you to work within the sensor's operational range. A matte box must be used to adjust the filter's position in front of the lens. This is not something that you can just fix in post.

The image below is a Canon 50mm that almost always had a .6 ND on it when we were shooing at this location.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

honestly.. Im laughing at the comments that say "to make your camera look awesome"..
I know your joking, but I think some people actually think like this..
the guys who want to "look" like they are the real deal.

I wish i could just slim down the camera. throw a series 9 on the lens.. and call it a day.
But the MB is also used to control flare like everyone is saying.