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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why 4K?

Jimmy Odom said:
So how then with all of the talk of the future finishes being 4K-->3K and so on and so forth, does Scarlet 2/3 or even Fixed fit into the picture?

Are you guys saying that even before it is released, it is in a sense non-future resilient, and therefore close to extinction.
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Basically, Scarlet 3K cameras do not fit in to this "4K finish" discussion. Neither does overcranked Red One 3K footage.

But hey, there will always be a market for 1080p stuff. Major films like the Star Wars Prequels, Avatar, etc, were shot 1080p, not to mention the thousands of films that used 2K special effects, essentially bottlenecking them at 1080p as a delivery format. 1080p will probably be the broadcast standard for decades to come. Planet Earth, for example, is bottlenecked by the large amount of 720p Varicam footage in it.

For serious work with a decent budget, I'd definitely try to get my hands on an Epic, though.
 
Jannard said:
Why shoot 4K? If the world is currently finishing in 1080P and 2K, what is the real advantage to 4K?

The key word is "currently".

Sony has placed several hundred 4K projectors in theaters. Christie, Barco and Meridian have 4K projectors. Epson just showed their 4K projector for the home. Panasonic has released its 152" 4K plasma. Sony, Sharp and Samsung all have shown 4K display prototypes. Why? Because the future is 4K delivery. We think on RED Ray (RED 4K).

So what does that mean? It means that Hollywood Studio libraries can be re-released in 4K. But ONLY if shot on film or RED. If you shot on a 1080P camera... it just won't work. Uprezzing from 1080P to 4K is a 430% jump.

Film resolves around 3K measured (from a 4K scan) and the RED ONE about 3.2K. Those will scale to 4K delivery no problem. EPIC is a 5K sensor that delivers a full 4K measured resolution. More than just about anything you can shoot and exactly what the doctor ordered for the future.

We encourage you to consider the future possibilities of what your footage can be used for when making a camera selection. Why would you shoot SD now? If 4K delivery is the future, why would you shoot 1080P and limit future options?

Jim
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I saw that 152' screen at CES the other day. REALLY COOL. Although the footage they were showing was a real bore. Wish you guys could have gotten them something. (come to think of it, Jim, there was drag racing footage, so you might have liked it, but it was just superwide still shot)
 
Jannard said:
Why shoot 4K? If the world is currently finishing in 1080P and 2K, what is the real advantage to 4K?

The key word is "currently".

......why would you shoot 1080P and limit future options?

Jim
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I shoot 1080P because it is "currently". 1080 is currently available and accessible.

Quit selling numbers.
 
Jannard said:
Why shoot 4K? If the world is currently finishing in 1080P and 2K, what is the real advantage to 4K?

The key word is "currently".

Sony has placed several hundred 4K projectors in theaters. Christie, Barco and Meridian have 4K projectors. Epson just showed their 4K projector for the home. Panasonic has released its 152" 4K plasma. Sony, Sharp and Samsung all have shown 4K display prototypes. Why? Because the future is 4K delivery. We think on RED Ray (RED 4K).

So what does that mean? It means that Hollywood Studio libraries can be re-released in 4K. But ONLY if shot on film or RED. If you shot on a 1080P camera... it just won't work. Uprezzing from 1080P to 4K is a 430% jump.

Film resolves around 3K measured (from a 4K scan) and the RED ONE about 3.2K. Those will scale to 4K delivery no problem. EPIC is a 5K sensor that delivers a full 4K measured resolution. More than just about anything you can shoot and exactly what the doctor ordered for the future.

We encourage you to consider the future possibilities of what your footage can be used for when making a camera selection. Why would you shoot SD now? If 4K delivery is the future, why would you shoot 1080P and limit future options?

Jim
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Very well said, Jim, and here I Copy/Pasted an extract form Ketchframe's Executive Summary, were in is a quote form a Journal of one Of Sony Executives Interview.


"Sony is strongly active with recent deals which included the $315,000,000.00 and $525,000,000.00 sign agreements with Regal and AMC, two of the world largest movie theater chains, to install Digital 4K projectors across the entire circuit which in their US territory will amount to more then 11,000 screens.

The multi billion dollar global film industry of which the US has the strongest presence with the largest movie Studios and over 2,000 national movie theater companies at a total yearly revenues, averaging well over “Thirty Billion” dollars, have now a strong and increasing need for new Digital 3D and 4K material to distribute across their new venues"



NOTE: This are only the figure for USA, not counting the rest of the Globe, also strongly moving to 4K installations, and as the research for Ketchframe's possibility to self Distribute in a Digital Media at a Global scale, we found an incredible number of countries moving to 4K at a very fast pace, including SPain, in Europe, and SIngapore in Asia seriously pushing their envelope in to the al Digital 4K media, in their Venues.

So absolutely Yes to 4K and S3D in 4K!!

2010 is going to be a Fantastic Year!!
 
Major films like the Star Wars Prequels, Avatar, etc, were shot 1080p, not to mention the thousands of films that used 2K special effects, essentially bottlenecking them at 1080p as a delivery format. 1080p will probably be the broadcast standard for decades to come. Planet Earth, for example, is bottlenecked by the large amount of 720p Varicam footage in it.
Click to expand...

When 4K becomes the "standard" then we will shoot with it. The reality is we are trying to make a living now and a lot of lower end cameras are giving us the chance to do work with 1080p now. Hopefully in the future many of us will be able to afford 4K, in the meantime we live in 1080p land. And thats reality today.
 
John Caballero said:
When 4K becomes the "standard" then we will shoot with it. The reality is we are trying to make a living now and a lot of lower end cameras are giving us the chance to do work with 1080p now. Hopefully in the future many of us will be able to afford 4K, in the meantime we live in 1080p land. And thats reality today.
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Yes, but Scarlet will probably give you one of the best 1080p images out there, if not the best.

And you get a futureproof camera, one that'll hold up for quite a few years.
 
John Caballero said:
When 4K becomes the "standard" then we will shoot with it. The reality is we are trying to make a living now and a lot of lower end cameras are giving us the chance to do work with 1080p now. Hopefully in the future many of us will be able to afford 4K, in the meantime we live in 1080p land. And thats reality today.
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Not to come off all superior or anything but its worth noting that a DigiBeta SD rig with a DigiBeta deck for post costs several times the amount of an Epic and a Rocket Fuel set up. Just sayin'

Cheers - #19
 
Its been historically well accepted shooting higher resolution than you finnish will provide superior images. Thats why, we used to shoot 35mm just to transfer straight to SD. It looks way better than shooting SD video (for many reasons). A superior capture format will give you a better finished result. I still believe this to be true in our current digital post world.

Prost,
Rich
 
Blaire Johnson said:
Too bad resolution isn't everything. Functionality, ease of use, capabilities, noise, compression, and sooo many more aspects contribute to the final image, which IS the most important aspect of a camera system.

Resolution alone does not determine a camera systems worth. Stop saying it does. There are cameras that exist that have more photosites, which is how you determine the resolution on Red's cameras.
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I never said that resolution was the only important thing. Did you just tell me to stop talking? :-)

Jim
 
Justin Thomas said:
I shoot 1080P because it is "currently". 1080 is currently available and accessible.

Quit selling numbers.
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Now did you just tell me to quit talking? I said 1080P is "currently"... but it is not future-proof. What part of what I said do you disagree with exactly?

Jim
 
Wow, brave souls indeed...

Please Jim for the sake of the rest of us, Keep talking... Most of us love it when you keep talking as there are little fun facts hidden in every bite.

Note: as for the second poster... 4K is currently available and accessible... I am living proof of that.
 
Yes, but Scarlet will probably give you one of the best 1080p images out there, if not the best.

And you get a futureproof camera, one that'll hold up for quite a few years.
Click to expand...

Well, that is why we have been eagerly waiting for it now for a very long time. In the meatime what do we do? Shoot with the 1080p that is available now.
 
4K RAW acquisition makes for beautiful 1080p delivery. And 1080p will eventually pass into obsolescence, just as 480i/p and 720p before it. And so too will 4K. Perhaps pixel-based resolution will become obsolete one day. I'll gladly take all I can get.

We were mastering at 1080p or 2K, but now have gone all 4K with the speed boost afforded by the RED ROCKET. Our clients love it. I can't see how we can afford to not work in 4K now. And we're only a 2-man operation here most of the time.
 
Blaire Johnson said:
Too bad resolution isn't everything. Functionality, ease of use, capabilities, noise, compression, and sooo many more aspects contribute to the final image, which IS the most important aspect of a camera system.

Resolution alone does not determine a camera systems worth. Stop saying it does. There are cameras that exist that have more photosites, which is how you determine the resolution on Red's cameras.
Click to expand...

For a second, I thought this was Rian Johnson speaking. :biggrin:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Those who were around for that one will understand.

Blaire, no disrespect meant.:cheers2:
 
The more resolution the the better, for me, but I can't really see broadcasters doing anything more live(not including Stereoscopic Full HD3D) for a long time. Having said that, thank you Red for making 4K Yesterdays news!:thumbup1:
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
i am waiting for the 4k RT internetstream straight to my 4k Plasma (guess 5 years..hehe)
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Actually last year's CES had 4k displays, although they were really just a 2x2 matrix of HD displays with each getting an independent stream of footage that had been split into quadrants before encoding... but it shouldn't be too long before we are seeing 4k DLNA devices! :)
 
Am I the only one who thinks that Jim might be secretly building his own 4K Red displays?

He does have a history of getting fed up when others are not building something he needs, and then building it himself. That's what Red One was. Displays might seem out of Red's core competencies, but then again, was anyone expecting them to try to get into the digital cinema distribution/projection business with RedRAY?
 
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