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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why 4K?

Andrew Thomas said:
I don't really get your POV Jim. You ask why somebody would shoot a 5D right now, with its far less than 4k finishing resolution, when you're right around the corner from selling a camera that is seemingly designed for 2k finish.

How does you question about shooting on <really any 1080p cam> not equally apply with a product you yourself are about to release?

Or are you suggesting that the 3k resolution scarlet is not fit for feature work either?
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I don't pretend to read the Big Man's mind, but I took what he meant was shoot 4k if you can. If you can't, do so when you can.

I personally would add that if you are comfortable with second, third, or fourth best, then you will probably have no regrets at a later time. If you want to know that your project's data is the best it can be initially, then see the light (in the shadows).:coolgleamA:
 
Andrew Thomas said:
None of what you said is an actual response to my question. Jim quite explicitly said that its a bad idea to shoot a feature on a camera that doesn't give you a proper 4k finish, yet he is planning to sell a camera that is pretty much designed for 2k finish.

So the question is, does he not see the 3k resolution Scarlets as viable options for feature work.
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andrew, what do you want to prove? really, i am interested, what does it change for you, if the man is thinking 2k is enough or not.

you know, if you can drive 200 mph, you drive, but this will not change the fact that 100 mph will bring you pretty far too.
 
Andrew Thomas said:
None of what you said is an actual response to my question. Jim quite explicitly said that its a bad idea to shoot a feature on a camera that doesn't give you a proper 4k finish, yet he is planning to sell a camera that is pretty much designed for 2k finish.

So the question is, does he not see the 3k resolution Scarlets as viable options for feature work.
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My answer (I can't speak for Jim) is ... 100% 3K Scarlet will be a "viable option" for feature work. Not only viable ... but BETTER than many (if not ALL) high-end 1080p cameras being used today for feature work. The high-end 1080p cameras are already viable and there are countless examples.

I think the point here is that 4K is coming fast.

IF YOU CAN shoot your feature in 4k (and soon 5K) ... WHY would you shoot it with a 1080 camera?

You would eliminate the potential revenue from 4K delivery/distribution.

And yeah ... some folks laugh at me when I express my opinion that RedRay releases will generate MORE revenue than BluRay discs. But then ... a bunch of folks laughed at me when I put down deposits on first two available Red One cameras - SN#6 + SN#7.

You work with what you can.

Shoot Epic 5K.

Can't afford or get your hands on an Epic ... shoot RED ONE with a MX sensor - 4K or 4.5K.

Can't find a Red One with a MX sensor ... shoot RED ONE with Mysterium.

Want a smaller form factor? Or maybe you really need more sensitivity than Mysterium? Shoot Scarlet 2/3" - 3K.

and 1080p choice would be after these choices - IF you are thinking about FUTURE DISTRIBUTION OPTIONS.

Can you take 3K footage from Scarlet and upres to 4K RedRay or 4K DCP delivery? Sure you can. I'm also sure 4K or 5k originated material will look better.

1080p to 4K will fall apart.
 
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I'm not sure how I can be "trying to prove" anything by asking the man behind (well, more like in FRONT) the whole operation for clarification on his comments and where he sees the products that he sells fitting into the industry. I'm not sure why you're being so obtuse about it.


I appreciate your comments Mark and I think that is probably similar to what Jim's thought process is.
 
If later down the road the 2/3" chip would be getting an upgrade - couldn't Scarlet Fixed be upgraded?
Could its brains handle the 5K throughput?

If answers to both questions are yes, then Scarlet users should not fear!
 
Mark,

I think we should use 3.2K and 4K when comparing to 1080P cameras. Even Jim uses those numbers now.
 
Irri said:
Mark,

I think we should use 3.2K and 4K when comparing to 1080P cameras. Even Jim uses those numbers now.
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Thing is, a lot of supposedly 1080 cameras don't show 1920X1080 of effective resolution.

Take as an example the canon DSLR's, which hardly score above 1400X800.
 
Jannard said:
It is amazing to me that people are choosing to shoot feature films on 1080P cameras... I know, I know. Just sayin'...

Not so subtle reminder... 4K is 4.3 times the resolution of 1080P.

Jim
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Beyond Resolution Jim, the color space and flexibility of a 5k/9k image is incredible. It is just like shooting RAW images from a DSLR but better these images are alive and moving.
 
Álex Montoya said:
Thing is, a lot of supposedly 1080 cameras don't show 1920X1080 of effective resolution.

Take as an example the canon DSLR's, which hardly score above 1400X800.
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I guess. I've never really considered it as a movie camera.
 
I totally agree that I would always want to shoot 4k whenever possible. However, the opposite of the resolution revolution is, also, happening right now in distribution. Youtube, Cell Phone, and internet video, don't benefit as much from 4k, as one might think.
 
Jannard said:
Why shoot 4K? If the world is currently finishing in 1080P and 2K, what is the real advantage to 4K?

The key word is "currently".
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Even if we'd always get stuck to 1080P (unrealistic I know), shooting 4K to me would still be excellent for image stabilization of shaky shots or just dynamically re-framing/cropping a shot in post in case it was not framed correctly or in case the lens that was used was not long enough.

I think many non professional shooters will be interested in 4K even if they never deliver 4K and stay stuck to 1080P. These cameras won't just target professionals which all of you are but will also target a wider range of shooters.
 
Hugues Wisniewski said:
just dynamically re-framing/cropping a shot in post in case it was not framed correctly .
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Hi,

You have just made a very good argument for not shooting 4k. I do not want mt shots reframed ever, even if the editor would rather everything was exactly in the centre of the frame!

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

You have just made a very good argument for not shooting 4k. I do not want mt shots reframed ever, even if the editor would rather everything was exactly in the centre of the frame!

Stephen
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Hi Stephen, you just need to have the large cojones to tell the editor who's who in the zoo. :ciappa:
 
I wouldn't be so down on Scarlet's 3k resolution with respect to even 4k projection.

If you keep in mind that the camera produces 'data' first and foremost.

How will I do it when I get 8x Scarlet?

Shoot at a high frame rate 120 fps. It is possible then to use that data to simultaneously upres from 3k to 4k and down frame rate to get a 4k deliverable.

I'm a big fan of the 'Fast Lifting Wavelet Transform' (which makes me an even bigger fan of Graeme's work because I 'get it') and believe that producing 4k from 3k can be visually indistinguishable from a down res'ed lower frame rate 5K.

$.02
 
Dave Archer said:
I'm a big fan of the 'Fast Lifting Wavelet Transform' (which makes me an even bigger fan of Graeme's work because I 'get it') and believe that producing 4k from 3k can be visually indistinguishable from a down res'ed lower frame rate 5K.
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Sorry but I don't buy this at all. You get out what you put in. If this was the case, why would anyone ever shoot on Epic?
 
Tom L said:
Hi Stephen, you just need to have the large cajones to tell the editor who's who in the zoo. :ciappa:
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That's not always possible. I've had to save a DoP's artistic intent by saying that reframing would be too time consuming, on more than one occasion.
 
Irri said:
That's not always possible. I've had to save a DoP's artistic intent by saying that reframing would be too time consuming, on more than one occasion.
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Hi,

Having always made my decisions during the shoot, I actually don't want to be able to make a scene shot as night day. Underexposing by 3 stops always got the pictures I was being paid to make!

Stephen
 
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