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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why 4K TVs are stupid

Jake Bastian said:
You'll still be able see a big difference. I have a friend who swore up and down that there wasn't a big difference between DVD and Bluray, came over one night and I happened to be watching the same movie on Bluray he'd just finished on DVD. "Holy shit your TV looks way better than mine." and that was 720 to 1080 - 1080 to 4K is huge compared to that.

...and for the record I think Bluray was an unnecessary step between DVD and 4K.
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720 is the width of SD and 1080 is the hight of HD. You need to compare 486 to 1080 or 720 to 1920...
 
He has a good point, but let's treat him like Apple when they came out with FCPX. I think 4K is going to be mostly for the as yet not existing projector market. But we will tire of buying bulbs, if the Government allows it at all. Only if 3D for the home catches on, then the local theatre will be obsolete.
 
Alan Skinner said:
BTW I am looking for 4K TV as big as possible just so I can watch Tom Lowe's work on it! :)

Does that make me a Tom Lowe fanboy......?

Love your work Tom!
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Much love my friend.

I am working on a 4K film that is gonna put 4K on the map! Well I'm trying anyway.
 
I think his article makes his opinion clear, and is not too far out on some points ether,
of corse 4K monitors can't be for the Cinemas as people seat too far away to be viewing properly even the biggest TV of 100"... ;)

I have a 4k TV on order and of course I believe it to be the answer... for now... even at home and or in the Studio for Pro grading of our 4K Movie projects.

I always have seen a clear difference of Home vs. going to a Cinema, always will, just wish that so many Junk Cinemas went out of business and closed already,
or completely Remodeled and upgraded their facilities, and stopped ripping people OFF!!

All of our projects currently in the works will be finished in Digital 4K, with Master DCP out, so I can't wait to have both our 4K TV's
and RED's 4k Laser Projectors, which btw are a very different viewing experience, very different.


If you care about detail as I do, and are spending the kind of money as I am on Cameras and Lenses, then you also care for the final viewing to be at its most Glorious 4K... ;)
 
I think the title of the article is stupid, but the points he makes are dead on.

I sit less than 10 feet from my 50" 1080p plasma. (Depending on the seat, between 5 and 8 feet.)

720p material looks fine to most of my guests ... many can't tell it from 1080p at all.

I agree that 4K delivery is a huge step forward, but you really need a big TV viewed from relatively close (by todays standards) for it to give the wow factor to regular folks. I can see it, you guys can see it, but we are, for the most part, trained professional imaging folks.

I think the wall size displays are coming ... but I see no evidence they are going to get here faster than 1080p took over from SD. I also think the displays that can truly show the difference are going to take a while to show up anywhere near the "magic" $999USD price point.

I am going to hang on to my current 2D 50" plasma because Red said a Red Laser 3D projector is in the works. I'm excited about 4K with that ... but I am more excited about the dynamic range and other features than I am about 4K. I just hope it can properly display upscaled 720 and 1080 material.

I totally expect my friends, and many colleagues, will look at that and ask why its such a big deal.
 
This quote from the article: "So if your eye can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on nearly all modern televisions, what's the need for 4K?" is pretty funny to me. As the difference between those two resolutions is pretty damn noticeable. The jump to 4k is much, much clearer to observe.

If the argument and standpoint for the article was "4k is stupid for screens under 21 inches" I could maybe read that. However, there will be distinct advantages and very clear resolution performance from 36 inches and up. The bonus here is those 80 inch and 110 inch sets that Santa is hard at work on will also benefit the most from 4k.

I agree with Tom. It's the same as it was when 1080p was just the newest kid on the block. 4k sets will not only be the new kid on the block, but likely the last future for digital 2D and 3D displays for some time to come. I mean until 2020 that is.
 
Much of what he says is true... although I don't agree with his conclusion I hear what he's saying.

In fact I still watch TV on a 36" 480p plasma - it's got great contrast, black levels and colors and with its HD resolution (i.e oversampled) color difference analog inputs it puts both "all digital and HD resolution LCD panels" we also own to shame.

However as screen sizes increase the argument for high quality 4K as a source signal (even for 1080p panels) becomes pretty obvious - once you have seen it. And as for a 4K source on a 4K panel or projector - yeah there's a market for that... :-)
 
Time for people to wake up and smell the 4K Brew! Tom is right!
 
I want 4K brew in my brew.
 
As I think I've been quoted - sit far enough away (have small enough angle of view) from the TV and even VHS looks great..... Thus proving you don't need any higher image quality than VHS provides. Anyone who wants to sit closer to the screen or have a larger TV (or projection screen) is just plain wrong, even though cinema (never mind IMAX) is a much more involving experience than watching TV in the home. :-)

Graeme
 
Peter Majtan said:
In Japan the average living room (that is if you have a dedicated one) is like 4x5 m - sitting close to TV is inevitable...
OK, I am exaggerating, but you catch my drift...
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Your right Peter, his premise is that people are watching TV 10 Feet away ... which is invalid(my average distance is 3 feet). His focus on contrast is important though, that's why 4k with lasers is critical. I know with my 2k monitor (for film coloring), non-profesionals can instantly can tell the quality difference.
 
For the future couldn't they bump the scarlet up to 4.5K and 24fps 5K to stay ahead of the game with a firmware upgrade? The red one had 5 years but we may have 2 before the other brands catch up to 4k. Now that I'm going broke i don't want someone to drop a camera for 5 thousand and its 6K..you know what i mean take a look at what happen to sony they dropped two cameras PMW3 and the FS100. The fs100 can do things that the $20.G camera can't do.

Then Red dropped the epic M Epic X & scarlet and killed all markets, the scarlet is killing sony alone 20 G's vs 12G's footage night and day..Sony buyers got creamed.
 
Tom Lowe said:
Isn't the resolution gain from 1920 to 4K almost exactly the same as DVD to 1080p, if not more?
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In math, not in perception.

The larger the screen or the closer you sit the higher the demand for 4K, most people don't have really large screens so the demand for 4K isn't there for them, only from them who want big screens or who sit close to their screens.

The parameters of perception become more important the higher resolution you get and revolutions only happen when visionaries creates a large demand. Like, in Sweden almost every TV in every home and public place everywhere has been replaced by LCD's and Plasmas, that isn't true everywhere in the world.

I want 4K, I just think that 4K will happen when it's the only resolution you can get in your new TV. Like changing to electric cars, that will only happen when there aren't much of a choice or the choice is easy economical and practical. I'm speaking of the large big world of regular people now, not us who work and love great images, catch my drift?

This is why I'm waiting for the Red projector, the consumer version would create such a tsunami of opinions in the public because it gives so much for a reasonable price.
If a laser 4K 3D projector hit the market for a consumer price, it will kill everything, there wouldn't make any sense to buy anything else, even for consumers.
 
Subjective necessities and priorities vary, but it wouldn't be wise to take seriously generalized statements about human abilities, made by people who quote quotes.

The author is clueless about the nature of human vision by focusing on a single factor taken out of context, and with attempts of defining its limits seems to be lost within mathematics.

That's cool, 1920x1080 prints need framing and love as well.
 
I can say from experience that a 50" 4k monitor with 4k material is visibly much better even from 8 to 10 feet away. It's not that you see more fine detail. The detail you do see is much better quality due to higher MTF and better micro contrast in the visually critical range around 1.6k. It is like the difference between looking at a TV and looking through a window. Same is true sitting on the back row of a 4k theater vs a 2k theater. The image just has a more organic life like quality to it.
 
The article is what's stupid... Sorry, but it begs for it.

Give this guy 4k content on a triple digit screen with great contrast, low glare, etc... then we'll talk.

Don't feed the troll-bloggers.
 
David Rasberry said:
I can say from experience that a 50" 4k monitor with 4k material is visibly much better even from 8 to 10 feet away. It's not that you see more fine detail. The detail you do see is much better quality due to higher MTF and better micro contrast in the visually critical range around 1.6k. It is like the difference between looking at a TV and looking through a window. Same is true sitting on the back row of a 4k theater vs a 2k theater. The image just has a more organic life like quality to it.
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Most people don't have a 50" television set, for those that do, I agree, the same goes for theaters, but anyone who sit in front of a fullHD 32" television in a normal living room I understand if they question it.
But as said, show him true 4K in it's true nature where it belongs and he will say otherwise.
 
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