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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"why 4K is wrong" ???????????

I am sick to death of the whole "Skyfall" as an an example of why we should all just sit back and not move forward :P

Frick I couldnt care less for that movie and Im a Bond fan.

If it was really about what I liked, I would have to build a time machine and go back to the early 60s.

I see no point in that since I really am enjoying what we have now as far as options go in this field ;)
 
I would say we’re in a period of transition; there will be lots of talk about 35mm & 65 mm Film 2K, 4K and 6K. I think the article reflects that period of uncertainty that always occurs during transitions, it the Human Way!

Humberto Rivera
 
The difference between the detail and immersive nature of Skyfall and Prometheus was clear and obvious to me. Not to mention the 35mm shots from Dark Night. I really do feel like I've been ruined. I have good vision and obviously work in the industry. From a detail perspective the difference between the aforementioned movies was night and day. 5K (4K) is better in terms of clarity. A lot better and I don't see how anyone can debate that.

As for utilizing the extra resolution in my average day to day video production work - I DO IT ALL THE TIME. I was doing it with HDV in a DV container and detest editing DSLR footage because I have nowhere to go. No options, no reframing, no downscaling to hide the sins. Anyone who doesn't welcome a little more res is fooling themselves.
 
I swear I read that exact same article back in '98, telling us why HD is wrong...

As Humberto says, we are in a transition period. With the industry in flux, we have uncertainty, doubt, fear and a large helping of complacency from the old guard. I can understand the resistance. But in the end, those who refuse to adapt and make the transition will fade into obsolescence.
 
Just read the guys mini biography at bottom of article:

About the author: John Bourbonais is a cinematographer and owner of an Arri Alexa, three-ton grip truck and a production facility located in Colorado Springs, CO.
Click to expand...

He owns an Alexa. Makes sense he thinks it's enough.
 
I think its hard not to be biased as an owner op. But theres a lot of 4k models out now, so its not exactly as cutting edge a concept these days and I don't know why people married to their 2k cameras think they can try to sway the masses, who always want MORE MORE MORE!..
 
Maybe one day we will arrive at a point where the difference between 12k and 16k won't be be that noticeable to the human eye. Until then, I welcome resolution increase with open arms. I love the Alexa and it produces a beautiful image but it is soft compared to 4k and above cameras, I don't think anyone can dispute that.
 
I happen to agree with this article...

HD, 2K/4K/6K... are indeed diferent beasts but it's not just the numbers that make the difference it's the actual camera systems in which these picture sizes are captured. 1080P from a 7D is not the same image quality as 1080p from a Red or Alexa, although they all are 1080p!

Anyone that even suggests that Prometheus was 'better' looking in terms of quality or sharper than Skyfall is talking shit. Really is.

So yeah, the 4K game is not all clear as of the moment, what good does it make to have a big image if this image is lacking in other more important issues, I.e: color depth, DR, color space, highlight, shadow, bit rate, clarity, punch, etc...

It's absolutely ridiculous to digest that bigger is better! Only loosers and clueless wannabe's hold on to that view. And to them, I wish all the luck in the world... They surely going to needed with such a short sighted view!
 
And because Citizen Kane was shot in black and white, we should all be shooting in black and white as colour adds nothing to cinematography.

:-)

Graeme
 
I say no to go to the cinema alot since it looks so soft with only 2k where we go. If I go i want to be as far from the screen as possible. So for cinema it will be huge difference. But it seams no body else se how soft it is. Like having plastig bag over your head. And stereoscopic doesnot make it better. Its so much better to se the blueray at a homecinema on or tv. 2k is not meant to be stretched out on a big cinemascreen in my opinion. its alright for 60" or so. Sad...

Its funny read this when you have 2k on a small little ipad and 4k displays going to be all over pretty soon.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
And because Citizen Kane was shot in black and white, we should all be shooting in black and white as colour adds nothing to cinematography.

:-)

Graeme
Click to expand...

Graeme speaks I listen ;)

For me its always been REDs eco system that got me into this craft.

Sure its 4k but heck Im having a great time shooting 1k/2k/3k as well with my Scarlet :)

And since I have the 4k option, Its just icing to this wonderful medium we are all living in ;)
 
{Anyone that even suggests that Prometheus was 'better' looking in terms of quality or sharper than Skyfall is talking shit. Really is.}

You'll notice I never once said 'better.' I said detail and clarity. If you honestly sit in the theatre and can't see the difference in detail level between a 4K showing of Skyfall (which was a much better movie IMO) and Prometheus. Then I don't know what to tell you. In my mind it can't be debated. Prometheus was that much sharper/more resolute/more detailed. That doesn't mean it's a 'better' image, just better in those ways. When Arri comes out with their 4K or 6K version will you hold on to your feelings that they look the same? Because that would be silly. If you like the Alexa's image or image from whatever other camera better than that's fine, but don't mince words to try to make a point that's simply not true. (Like the guy in the article does).
 
I think scare mongering against 4K is pretty pointless. But I also worry that the Ks will just keep going up and up. I think 4K is great, the 4K R3D files I produce don't seem to take up much more space than my old GH1 AVCHD transcoded to prores. But what happens after 6K dragon? Has the K's race just begun? I agree that pixel size isn't the only, or even most important element to a picture. I hope the Ks aren't driven by competing products, I hope we find we find a happy place where we can say "great, that's enough!"
 
I don't really understand why people get upset by 4k. Resolution is good for you in the sense that not enough resolution means poor representation of detail, and an image without detail is just a blur. To complain that distribution for them is only 2k or 1080p is to ignore that 4k makes for a better 1080p than shooting 1080p does.

Indeed, there are so many advantages to 4k (and beyond) and actual visible image detail is just one of them. Even if you don't want that advantage, you get the others. When I hear a complaint that image quality doesn't matter and it's the cinematography / story / whatever that's important, you have to ask yourself if the person saying it would be happy watching that movie on a VHS tape and 14" portable CRT from 1984, or on BluRay on a 1080p projector, a large screen and great sound system. It's blinking obvious that every parameter of image quality is important, and while a superb image cannot make a bad story better, it can make a good story less enjoyable.

Graeme
 
Totally agree Graeme.


Graeme Nattress said:
I don't really understand why people get upset by 4k.
Click to expand...

I can think of a variety of reasons. Some stem from the "whoa HD has too much detail, I can see skin!" world who never shot Super 35mm or larger formats. Some stem from the "1080p is good enough" camp, yet don't even know why that standard was developed and was mostly a compromise from the get go for cinema display. Some stem from "fear of the unknown". Some stem from "4K isn't there yet". Some from the "4K isn't indi-friendly". Some from crazy other reasons.


Most who have such strong opinions like above rarely do any research themselves. Understandable due to the expense, time, and technical mindset to critically and aesthetically examine material.

Most don't "understand" until somebody shows them. Still it's difficult to take bias out of the equation sometimes.

Even now on the raw side of things. I just had to show somebody a side by side of what a "thick" raw file was versus a "thin" one and that seemed to make their head explode with possibilities.

Everybody has a right to their opinion, although the referenced article is certainly a heavily biased one. However, when the industry is clearly developing and moving towards a direction like UHD, they are essentially standing outside and ignoring the storm clouds and rain while touting what a lovely sunny summer day it is.

It's okay guys. It's raining. And rain is really beautiful if you really look at it.
 
I love the look after a storm (or even during) as the light is so special! Thanks Ketch.

Graeme
 
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