When will cameras with new design, with new sensors, new resolutions and higher specifications become finally released from RED/Nikon?

[fgonz031]

When will cameras with new design, with new sensors, new resolutions and higher specifications become finally released from RED/Nikon?

 

[Phil Holland]

Hard to say.

In terms of body type, DSMC3 really doesn't have a reason to be majorly overhauled yet. Raptor 8K VV, X with the Global Shutter and the prior fast readout rolling shutter are still the most advanced sensor technology on the market currently. Really only the Venice 2 has a resolution edge for commercially available production cameras. Diffraction hits the 12K and 17K early, but those cameras are all about making a 4K image in reality.

I think it's also important to mention that X camera out in 2024 and isn't exactly long in the tooth in any regard. Really none of the DSMC3 cameras are. Komodo perhaps is on the last couple years of it being around. I don't think we'll see anymore CFast cameras moving foward. CFexpress Type B and eventually Type C are the modern market outside of proprietary media.

I personally wouldn't mind a larger format digital cinema camera, but I'm ready for what that would require from a cost and workflow proposition. The mass market is probably not, but I'm a big picture sort of fellow. And yes, I do want higher than 8K resolution as well. Nobody has really nailed that just yet.

General specification improvements, I think everybody clamors for more Dynamic Range and/or better sensitivity. Higher frame rates could be a great option to have if possible in the future. Somewhat alleviating the need for a specialty camera when more FPS is needed.

V-Raptor 8K VV is not exactly that much smaller than the incoming medium format/65 cameras if we are talking 17:9 and 16:9. For instance, the BMD Ursa Cine 17K at 17:9 is only 1.08X larger and V-Raptor is cleaner as well as smaller. Eterna at 4K will be 1.07X larger. The Alexa 265 however is 1.18X larger and I do think there's a difference there, but we can't buy that camera. Those sensors though are typically wider and that's where they will provide more for 2:2 or 2.39:1 productions.

If RED goes to larger format and higher resolution, I don't think that removes the need for 8K VV and 6K S35 options at all. I'd like to see them support all three formats if possible and likely a couple of camera types for one or two of those formats.

But yeah, higher resolution, larger format, more codec support, any sort of IQ improvements, and likely a few other things I shouldn't mention online would be desired.

 

[Phil Holland]

I guess a useful reply is more "what is it you are looking for?" really.

 

[Brian Timmons]

I have to say Fgonz you're admirably persistent with this question.

To quote from the film Do the right thing (1989):

"Those that tell don't know and those that know won't tell."
Da Mayor (as performed by Ossie Davis)

IIRC, RED average something like 2 cameras a year so I imagine things are very much in motion at RED HQ.

Having said that, I think a KX class camera with VV size sensor could be next perhaps late this year or early next year.
I think RED and Nikon are looking at the sub $10k space as that might be the area with the most activity for the
time being. I also think we might see early integration of Nikon Expeed processors.

Higher end Raptor style camera with better highlight and shadow performance and frame rates likely sometime next year.
I predict something of a version .5 (performance enhancement) upgrade similar to what RED Weapon was to the original RED Dragon cameras.
Also believe this would benefit from Expeed processors.

I could see a Medium Format style sensor within the next 2 years.
The lens choices are still limited with that format but I'm sure that will change sooner than later.
I also think RED may make something more like a 70mm sized sensor which would be a more meaningful
size increase from VV compared to 65mm.
I also wouldn't be surprised if such a Large Format camerawould be initially available in partnership with Panavision
(assuming that relationship with RED is still active) before being available in the mass market.

There is a lot up in the air with the economic circus we're in and the film and TV industry was already
in something of a depression. I think RED and Nikon are taking their time to get things right at the high
end and using this present slow down in the industry to develop something quite compelling for when
things truly pick up again.

Also noted is RED seems to be making a more serious push into the broadcast world which seems to be the pivot move of choice for cinema cameras as Arri is rumored to be doing a similar thing.
I just saw in the RED store that there is a PTZ setup with a KX and MMRC head, and Nikon lens.
An early example of the synergy that's been talked about.

Of course, what do I know I'm a filmmaker.
Will see.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Brian Timmons]

Diffraction hits the 12K and 17K early, but those cameras are all about making a 4K image in reality.

I know you've been testing the BMD 12K out so I would be curious about your findings.
The RGBW sensor tech is clearly different from the normal Bayer pattern based sensors and the pixel
layout shows a less dense field of color pixels than bayer sensors.

I also suspect there's some things going on under the hood that's not yet disclosed (likely for good and perhaps not
so good reasons).

Clearly 12k RGBW is not analogous to say a 12k Bayer as the the 12k Cine seems to be getting outperformed in terms of resolution by 8K bayer sensors like the Raptor and Burano.

I also wonder if there's a bit of in camera sharpening going on based on this video.

Whatever the case, your perspective would be appreciated on this Phil.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA