When is Epic Beta supposed to be finished

[Peter Cote]

I know Red has stated a number of times (especially when bugs and glitches come up) that Epic is still a beta camera. This is both a positive and negative for all of us. It's great that they are constantly working on improving it. I'm sure there are aspects of the camera we all would like to see tweaks in. However I just want to know what Red's plan is for it to be officially out of beta.

I take beta to mean that it is not recommended for all production work due to problems that still need to be solved and reliability issues. While I'm sure there will never be a point when Red stops working on improvements, will there be a point when it has Red's stamp of approval for all production work? Will it have their stamp of approval for reliability?

 

[BigLu]

Mine is Reliable as hell.

And currently on a few major productions.
Several high profile blockbusters shooting with these builds.

I hear your question and see what your asking.

When a producer asks me something similar I smile and wonder are you serious? Thats what your worried about???
Really?

Check it out all new high end computer cameras are releasing beta builds constantly.
All new support recoding devices are also.
They make a new build improve on it and move forward.

Will it ever stop?

Its not Film which can no longer progress.

Stamp of approval for productions?
Started like over a year ago.
Spiderman 3D comes out in like 4 months or so.

 

[Scott Crawley]

... will there be a point when it has Red's stamp of approval for all production work? Will it have their stamp of approval for reliability?

Why do you suppose it doesn't already have the stamp of approval? I'm fairly certain you are mistaken.

 

[Peter Cote]

No I feel my Epic has been tremendously reliable so far. Most glitches I've come across have been solvable by a camera restart. Thus far, I have only a few complaints. However I have just noticed that when some customers have lots of problems, one of the things that becomes an excuse is that it is still a beta camera. I am curious when that will no longer be a legitimate excuse. For example in current firmware release, playback is not supported by the EVF. This doesn't bother me that much because for the shooting I am doing, it's not hard to work around that. I am a happy customer so far, but I know there will come times when some of the current firmware limitations become bigger problems.

 

[Peter Stelzhammer]

Mine is Reliable as hell.

And currently on a few major productions.
Several high profile blockbusters shooting with these builds.

just curious: what firmware version(s) are you on? thx

 

[BigLu]

I believe 2.0.5

Next chance i have on my camera Im updating to the latest.

Not sure if this will help or not.
Some very basic tips I express to any AC whos willing to listen is.

question?
Do they have a computer?
100% of the time its yes.
Have you ever mashed all the buttons down and clicked the mouse 25 times and hit every button on your keyboard more because the computer is not responding?
They usually laugh and say yes.

Then Understand this EPIC is a SUPER Mega computer shrunk down to the size of your palm.
Sometimes a process or a button needs a moment to think.

Sometimes a series of buttons have been pressed to where its a touch confused. " think of a spinning beach ball all computers do it at some point or other even the BEST of them."
Other times someone does not even notice they have pressed a button and then they get pissed and try to get out of that mode only making the situation worst.
If you have a moment to REboot go for it, that often fixes the issues.

I hope that helps.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I think the latest firmware will always be released as "beta." That seems to be RED's philosophy; stay on the edge ("bleeding edge" even). Even now there is a "release version" of the firmware but it seems to me like most people are eager enough, and confident enough, to quickly move up to the latest set of capabilities, even if it is labeled "beta." The good news is that your camera will never stop betting better.

 

[Scott Crawley]

The possibility of future glitches will always exist, so long as they are releasing new firmware and software builds. You obviously understand that. Personally I think I'm happy to roll with it for as long as they are willing to supply me with improvements. I wouldn't ever want them to paint themselves into a corner where they feel they should put a cap on the updates, or not step up and assume responsibility for a glitch of some kind.

From what I can tell Red has been extremely good about stepping up to the plate and making good when they need to. If they have to draw a line in the sand and say "It's finished" they may well find themselves in a more defensive stance and that line could be drawn on the wrong side of you.

If I understand you correctly what you seem to be asking is "When will the last of the promised features be enabled so I can stop updating with confidence?" Would that be accurate?

 

[BigLu]

Cool way to put it Scott.

 

[Peter Cote]

If I understand you correctly what you seem to be asking is "When will the last of the promised features be enabled so I can stop updating with confidence?" Would that be accurate?

Yes I pretty want to know when the promised features will be available and working with some consistency. Like my example from above. No playback with EVF currently. Right now I can't output to both HDMI and HD SDI (not sure if that was a promised feature but I think it was). Things like that. I totally understand that a camera is never truly finished and like a computer it will always have a few hiccups. That's normal. If Red wants to add more features beyond that more power to them, but right now I'm just interested in the features promised when I made the purchase in October.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Yes I pretty want to know when the promised features will be available and working with some consistency. Like my example from above. No playback with EVF currently. Right now I can't output to both HDMI and HD SDI (not sure if that was a promised feature but I think it was). Things like that. I totally understand that a camera is never truly finished and like a computer it will always have a few hiccups. That's normal. If Red wants to add more features beyond that more power to them, but right now I'm just interested in the features promised when I made the purchase in October.

Did it not say something like "Delivery Dates and specs are due to change" when you made your order... In other words you bought "a pig in a sack"... a swedish saying meaning that you have no chance of inspecting what you bought into.

The cameras will improve for a long time forward. Just as the red one kind of got improved with the release of red gamma3 the other week.

 

[Peter Cote]

Did it not say something like "Delivery Dates and specs are due to change" when you made your order... In other words you bought "a pig in a sack"... a swedish saying meaning that you have no chance of inspecting what you bought into.

The cameras will improve for a long time forward. Just as the red one kind of got improved with the release of red gamma3 the other week.

I'm sure it did, however I'm sure that Red does not plan to drop basic features. Would be nice to get updates on things similar to the way backorder updates happen.

 

[Scott Crawley]

"a pig in a sack"... a swedish saying meaning that you have no chance of inspecting what you bought into.

I'm going to have to file that for future use. It seems to have a negative connotation though. It reminds me of an expression from Goodfellas it's like "putting a silk hat on a pig." I don't suppose this is at all similar. Is it sometimes good to have a pig?

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

The RED ONE took about 2 years to perfect, from its early release. Talk about a solid workhorse camera....

And upgrades included some things which even RED didn't expect. I believe the 4.5K widescreen was something a little extra which came as a happy surprise even to them.

So I'm guessing, given all that they have learned, that it will be about a year before they have squeezed every last drop out of what the camera can do. This is a guess, based on the rhythm of the R1 releases and upgrades. Anything anyone says is pure speculation, at this point.

This seems like the type of question best asked before you buy, not after. You probably would be feeling less frustrated if you had done due diligence on the history of RED upgrades, instead of asking this question after you've already made the purchase.The history is all online, all available for public scrutiny. So I guess I disagree with the "pig in a sack" characterization...all of the info is available here and at red.com -

 

[Peter Cote]

The RED ONE took about 2 years to perfect, from its early release. Talk about a solid workhorse camera....

And upgrades included some things which even RED didn't expect. I believe the 4.5K widescreen was something a little extra which came as a happy surprise even to them.

So I'm guessing, given all that they have learned, that it will be about a year before they have squeezed every last drop out of what the camera can do. This is a guess, based on the rhythm of the R1 releases and upgrades. Anything anyone says is pure speculation, at this point.

This seems like the type of question best asked before you buy, not after. You probably would be feeling less frustrated if you had done due diligence on the history of RED upgrades, instead of asking this question after you've already made the purchase.The history is all online, all available for public scrutiny. So I guess I disagree with the "pig in a sack" characterization...all of the info is available here and at red.com -

I don't understand why users on this forum always criticize someone that asks a question that there isn't a real answer to. Why assume that I haven't done plenty of research? Of course I learned as much as I could before making an investment such as this. First of all, I am not complaining. As I've said multiple times above I'm quite happy with the Epic and all that it offers so far. But as someone said above, everything is subject to change, meaning no matter how much research I did initially, everything could be different now. Just wanted to know if anyone had heard anything new.

 

[sergio arguello]

hey Peter ,

Welcome to the world of RED. I have to tell you that what you are asking for is understandable and att the same time one of those careful what your asking for type things. I have been traveling this road for such a long time that
i would never ask RED to serve it up once and for all. From R1 days let me tell you, what it started out as and what R1 ended ( for me as i dont have any more) was two different things completely. We kept getting a New camera every couple months and the upgrades were often not even on the original menu...i love it as for glitches id say most of the outcries are from the newbies and understandbly so as it takes a bit to learn to troubleshoot any and all the new digital cinema cameras out there...i shoot with one of my cameras almost daily and ive never had any of them go down. Now that said, i understand the reputation we are battleing from production due to the fear mongers out there and it just is what it is. I say If 5k was easy then everyone would be doing it ...

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I don't understand why users on this forum always criticize someone that asks a question that there isn't a real answer to. Why assume that I haven't done plenty of research? Of course I learned as much as I could before making an investment such as this. First of all, I am not complaining. As I've said multiple times above I'm quite happy with the Epic and all that it offers so far. But as someone said above, everything is subject to change, meaning no matter how much research I did initially, everything could be different now. Just wanted to know if anyone had heard anything new.

I dunno - I guess I have a personal preference for authentic questions, not the types of questions where the person asking already knows there isn't a real answer and has a veiled, underlying agenda. I actually tried to give you my best guess, based on experience. My bad for trying to give an authentic answer to an inauthentic question. I'll take a ding for that.

Carry on.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I dunno - I guess I have a personal preference for authentic questions, not the types of questions where the person asking already knows there isn't a real answer and has a veiled, underlying agenda. I actually tried to give you my best guess, based on experience. My bad for trying to give an authentic answer to an inauthentic question. I'll take a ding for that.

Carry on.

+1 ...and done.