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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What's your take on Zeiss Compact Primes?

Alexander Ibrahim said:
Fine.

Why does it matter where it comes from to you?

Do concerns about where it comes from over ride a frank evaluation of how the lens performs?
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Please understand,
in Europe whole generations have built cars, lenses,planes etc... in past 100 years.
That knowledge is passed from father to son.....thats lot of experience and craft i do not mind paying for.
I like to buy Ferrari from Italy and Mercedes from Germany. I do not like spending my money on Omega Watch built in China.
I have owned ZF Zeiss-well made lenses for money but i prefer my Zeiss PL Lenses to be made in Germany.

Regards
jiri
 
Jiri Vrozina said:
Please understand,
in Europe whole generations have built cars, lenses,planes etc... in past 100 years.
That knowledge is passed from father to son.....thats lot of experience and craft i do not mind paying for.
I like to buy Ferrari from Italy and Mercedes from Germany. I do not like spending my money on Omega Watch built in China.
I have owned ZF Zeiss-well made lenses for money but i prefer my Zeiss PL Lenses to be made in Germany.

Regards
jiri
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Ha! That's your complaint?

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense!

Its rather unfair to compare a $25000 Arri/Zeiss Master Prime to a $1500 Zeiss ZF Prime. Of course the Master Prime is better! For more than 15 times the price it had better be!

What next? Are you going to compare a Ferrari to a Fiat?

Their defects are really a limit of the market they are targeted towards. The tradeoff is that you get a lens for $1500 that is "good enough" as opposed to a $25000 lens that's as perfect as human knowledge & technology permits.

If you want to be fair to the Japanese lens manufacturers, you have to offer a retail price equivalent to a Master Prime if you expect quality competitive to the Master Prime.
 
:beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5:I do not have any complaint at all.I do not compare Photo lenses to Cine ones. Just read and listen before you write silly things.
I just prefer my Zeiss cps to be made under the same roof as Zeiss Master Primes.
After all i am making money from what i do. I appreciate better things in life....anyway go to your local Shopping Centre and get whatever Photo lenses you want.
 
Timur,

When you get a chance I'd love to hear your thoughts on the CP2s, and how they differ from the Panchros especially. I have been back and forth on which set makes the most sense for me as a growing Red rental / DIT / seemingly rarely shooting business. Basically Panchro 6 Lens set = CP2 5 Lens set + ARRI LWZ (later).

I'd love to hear an opinion and/or experiences and don't expect a full report:-)

I personally really want a set of the Cooke Panchros hands down but they are almost 2x the price....and alot of lower budget clients could use the extra stop.
Often my Red MX rents to small commercials, and corporate shoots including ones that end up shooting 5D (sigh). Therefore considering the CP2s for cost, size, versatility of PL/Canon mount , full frame futureproofing, and extra stop of T2 over most alternatives. RPPs are great but too heavy for me and plenty of sets already in town.

I realize you get what you pay for but am curious as to sharpness at T2.8 compared to the Panchros. I can deal with the lack of "warmth" but sharpness / falloff is important.

Much appreciated if and when you have the time.
Regards,

Brian Broz
 
I have 3 CP1s, the 28/2.1, 50/1.5 and 85/1.5. I use them on my Alexa (yes, I said the A word). I just bought the 28, so i have only used it once so far, but it looked fine to me on the little on board monitor (i know, hard to judge there). The 50 and 85 are great at 2.0 or smaller, but i love having the option of going 1.5 if needed, and for people closeups, that softness looks rather nice.
I have to say so far I am very happy with this short set. i like to double (or close to double) my focal lengths between lenses, less than that would look like a jump cut, plus the small difference between a 35 and a 50 can be made up by taking a little step forward. so now i patiently wait for the 15mm. boy, i hope it's a 2.1, but since their 15mm leica mount lens is a 2.8, i don't have my hopes up too high.
 
Jiri Vrozina said:
:beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5::beatdeadhorse5:I do not have any complaint at all.I do not compare Photo lenses to Cine ones. Just read and listen before you write silly things.
I just prefer my Zeiss cps to be made under the same roof as Zeiss Master Primes.
After all i am making money from what i do. I appreciate better things in life....anyway go to your local Shopping Centre and get whatever Photo lenses you want.
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Jiri, I'm very sorry but you sound very much like you are comparing Cine lenses to photo lenses.

Look, the only Japanese company I know of making real cine glass is Fujinon which has their own line of PL zooms and is making the Alura zooms for that other German company now.

To be fair, those are the lenses you should be comparing to the European craftsman lenses you champion.

Now, I can't really offer any thoughts on the Fujinon PL glass ... I haven't touched it yet. I admit to being very curious.

That's what I am saying - compare the Fujinon 14.5-45 t/2 to the Cooke S4/i 15-40 t/2. Compare the Alura 18-80 to the Angenieux 17-80 t/2.2 lens.

Based on the fact that Arri has chosen Fujinon over Zeiss as their zoom manufacturer- they can't be all bad. Based on the specifications alone, I'd say Fujinon has something to learn still. Only time and the glass will tell the truth.

Regardless of the conclusion I might reach in using their lenses this at least is a fair comparison. Its Fujinon doing its best work.

As to my lens shopping habits- your insult is noted.

My response is simply that I choose lenses based on their ability to help me satisfy my clients and my audiences.

I am not buying mystique or tradition, or generational knowledge. I'm buying glass, and its the glass I have to look at not their origin, or the last name of the lens tech.
 
Deliciouspizza said:
Does anyone know if the CP.2s rent well?
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I have heard that the CP lenses rent better than the Red lenses or other nominally better lens sets, mostly by trading on the Zeiss name.

This depends on your market though.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
I have heard that the CP lenses rent better than the Red lenses or other nominally better lens sets, mostly by trading on the Zeiss name.

This depends on your market though.
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YEP people in australia prefer CP lenses to RED primes. I know because everyone wants to rent mine. Especially that they also fit onto canon 5D/7d if you pay the extra for the interchangeable mounts.

But just so you know, I was testing my LWZ2, CP and MKIII super speeds for flare today buy placing a blonde (2K light) a few metres back from the camera and having someone close to the camera looking into the lens as I am shooting a sunrise tomorrow with someone pearing into my lens. The results were interesting..

LWZ2 (the new 15.5-45mm zoom) looked great, nice flares (red in colour) with an nice bokeh. Good contrast range

CP2 looked ok but nothing special, didnt really like the bokeh wasnt really round, but wasnt really octagonal either, flares were a bit weird (red/ purple and a bit of blue) Contrast a bit darker than other lenses.

MkIII super speeds, looked amazing, big flares (red/purple) with the traditional bokeh.. Awesome contrast the best by far.

All lenses had ND.9, F8 at ISO 640.

I should post up something here but I dont have time at the moment. Some one remind me in a couple of weeks.

I think that the CP2 lenses are sharp and great for commercial work as they are light and sit great on my steadicam archer2. But for arty stuff its pretty hard to beat Super speeds, but the LWZ did match really well with both sets of lenses.

Just goes to show that a 20-30yrs old set of lenses still hold up today!
 
Okay clearly my post came across as "Japanese lenses suck. German or bust" or something and started a mini flame war, which was totally not my point.

All I was saying is I thought the ZF line were "leftover" designs / manufacturing capacity, so maybe Zeiss would be taking over development if there were to be new ones.
 
I hear the CP.2s can be really soft when wide open, how true is this? Does this also apply to the 18mm as in does that mean the 18mm won't be perfectly sharp until closed down to a 4 or 5.6?

And what are the odds that Zeiss will release an improved 18,21 and 25 and if so, when? Do you think they will make a special offer for people who already own the current 18,21 and 25s?
 
Deliciouspizza said:
I hear the CP.2s can be really soft when wide open, how true is this? Does this also apply to the 18mm as in does that mean the 18mm won't be perfectly sharp until closed down to a 4 or 5.6?

And what are the odds that Zeiss will release an improved 18,21 and 25 and if so, when? Do you think they will make a special offer for people who already own the current 18,21 and 25s?
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You hear this from who?
It's not true. The CP1's may have been a little softer wide open and this is certainly true with the fast zf's but the cp2's are sharp wide open.
When you say improved, do you mean faster? I think that Mitch had mentioned them working on some faster wides. I don't think they'll have any special offers for people who own the originals, after all they're not Red.
 
If anything the CP2 lenses are a bit sharp and i tend to put in a 1/4 ultra con to soften them out a bit. Same with the LWZ2.

I don't know if i mentioned this anywhere but the LWZ is super35 and on a 5d it looks like you are looking through a tunnel. 7d is fine though
 
Hi Adam. That has always been my concern about the CP2 - from the footage that I have seen posted, they look a bit sharp for my tastes. I prefer a slightly softer look. On the other hand I really like the look of Red Cam and Zeiss standards.
 
I would rather soften a lens on a shoot then have to try and sharpen it later in post though!

For TV commercials the CP2's are awesome, The arty stuff like music videos, drama etc. Can't beat MkIII super speeds..
 
Lee Saxon said:
Okay clearly my post came across as "Japanese lenses suck. German or bust" or something and started a mini flame war, which was totally not my point.

All I was saying is I thought the ZF line were "leftover" designs / manufacturing capacity, so maybe Zeiss would be taking over development if there were to be new ones.
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I Never said That! My point was I prefer to buy Zeiss German made , Toyota Japanese made,RED Epic US made. Anyway if there is Epic Battletested available for sale Please let me know-can buy right now.........:-)
 
Tough to sift through all the opinions of people who haven't actually used them. Would love to hear experiences from Timur or people who have actually used the CP2s.
CP1s had issues that have been adressed, and CP2s have issues with the wider lengths that hopefully will be addressed.
I rented a set of RPPs on the weekend, and although they are great lenses... the lack of markings between 6 - 15' and massive size/weight are a dealbreaker for me.
Timur...if you're still here I'd welcome your thoughts!
 
Brian Broz said:
Tough to sift through all the opinions of people who haven't actually used them. Would love to hear experiences from Timur or people who have actually used the CP2s.
CP1s had issues that have been adressed, and CP2s have issues with the wider lengths that hopefully will be addressed.
I rented a set of RPPs on the weekend, and although they are great lenses... the lack of markings between 6 - 15' and massive size/weight are a dealbreaker for me.
Timur...if you're still here I'd welcome your thoughts!
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For Your shots wait for Zeiss CP.2 15mm T2.1.
 
Brian Broz said:
Tough to sift through all the opinions of people who haven't actually used them. Would love to hear experiences from Timur or people who have actually used the CP2s.
CP1s had issues that have been adressed, and CP2s have issues with the wider lengths that hopefully will be addressed.
I rented a set of RPPs on the weekend, and although they are great lenses... the lack of markings between 6 - 15' and massive size/weight are a dealbreaker for me.
Timur...if you're still here I'd welcome your thoughts!
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Read my earlier posts. I use CP2/ LWZ and my super speeds nearly everyday. I thoroughly recommend the CP2 lenses, especially for the price. Just us a 1/4 or 1/2 ultracon or similar for arty or drama stuff as they are very sharp.
 
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