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What would be enough?

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Andrey Blanco

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What would be enough reasons to upgrade to Weapon?

These are my:

Important :
-Lower Noise at High ISO levels for example over ISO 800
-Higher Dynamic Range (and I really meant really easy to verified right away not marketing claims. I think I'm OK with 16+ but If they can push a bit more definitly will be enough reason to jump in to it)
-Integrated ND Filter system
-Nicer Audio Pre Amps
-Lower Power Consumption.


Not really Important:
-New Design (Smaller, Lighter, stylishs, etc)
-High Frame Rates on 6K (Will be welcome but not at reason for me to upgrade)
-Proress (I love so much REDCODE than this is not something important for my workflow)
-Lower Temperatures, Weeell I live in Canada if you know what I meant ;)
-Easy and cheaper design to replace Sensor in the future (instead of sending the camera to red)
-Global shutter, I'm pretty sure they will offer this with weapon.


I was unsure about going from MX to Dragon and definitely it was a great decision So now as a lot of people I'm skeptical with weapon so at the end I may upgrade anyways :S I really hope there is a really nice surprise feature (nobody has thought) that will be the main reason to upgrade
 
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Depends on the price.

$10,000 for a little better low light/DR performance and an extra 30-50fps...I will hold onto the Dragon.

If it all of the sudden works like a Sony A7s in low light and you can go up to ISO 6400 without much penalty plus we are getting 400-500 fps in 4K? Totally worth it.

Integrated ND and audio would be nice as well but not game changers. If those don't come through I just continue to use lens ND filtration and external audio...
 
Yeah, I think after what the Dragon upgrade cost most Epic to Dragon owners there will have to be some real concrete upgrades to Weapon at any price range. I'm also going to need to see some real proof of ISO / DR / CMOS Smear Claims. I think Dragon is MUCH better than Epic, but the price tag and the DR / 2000 ISO claims have me protecting my cash a little more for an upgrade. However, they hit some of the above points, I'll be in for sure. The higher frame rate stuff, if it happens has to be at lower compression, I just hope they have all those specs ready when they announce it. A 15:1 at 400fps at 4K is going to look like shit. The higher the frame rate the more the compression chatter you see, which is why I think Phantom goes all raw.

Just my thoughts, I'm excited to see what they do with this thing! There's a TON of high frame rate 4K and high ISO / DR competition out there now, it'd be cool to see RED do something well above everyone else.
 
The price will be a big factor for me.

I have always been interested in the Phantom market. If the Carbon version say has a pretty large leap in frame rates I'd potentially pony up for that since it would cater a bit more to what type of work I do.

However, another huge factor for me since I work in environments where i'm often hiking/climbing the size and weight is a pretty huge factor for me.

IF it's another $9500-$10k bump (given the credit/Having dragon before NAB Discount) i'd be pretty eager to consider it if the weight is lessened.

Overall-

-Better Lowlight
-Better options for Long Exposure (bulb mode) so I can ditch carrying a DSLR for time-lapse work
-Ligher weight in all aspects
-Better battery life (longer life and power out of the same batteries will also help with cutting weight)
-ProRes for some clients who hate .r3d (even though it's my preference)
 
integrated ND (that would be huge for me)
4:3 sensor or "full frame" sensor (mostly for the ability to pull stills, which are currently wide enough, but 3000 (ish) pixels tall is limiting.)
faster frame rates would be a draw.
cleaner high-iso. haven't tested out the 'varicam' but the idea of dual "native" iso makes sense to me.
swappable sensors would be a big deal, especially for people like myself who have to ship cameras across borders. (but it's not a deal breaker.)

those would be the big factors. then again, RED always seems to have a few tricks of their sleeves, so i'm eager to see what else they've come up with.


i'm happy enough with the current DSMC form factor, it has it's quirks, but with the right aftermarket gadgets it all works for me.
i personally use the raw R3D files, so while i understand the excitement about prores, it doesn't matter to me, i think post workflow should adapt to handling raw files

if it's a 10k upgrade...i don't know, i'm pretty happy with my current setup. but i'll be at NAB staring into the center of the marketing hype, so i'm fully prepared to pull the trigger if i'm impressed.
 
Andrey Blanco said:
What would be enough reasons to upgrade to Weapon?

These are my:

Important :
-Lower Noise at High ISO levels for example over ISO 800
-Higher Dynamic Range (and I really meant really easy to verified right away not marketing claims. I think I'm OK with 16+ but If they can push a bit more definitly will be enough reason to jump in to it)
-Integrated ND Filter system
-Nicer Audio Pre Amps
-Lower Power Consumption.


Not really Important:
-New Design (Smaller, Lighter, stylishs, etc)
-High Frame Rates on 6K (Will be welcome but not at reason for me to upgrade)
-Proress (I love so much REDCODE than this is not something important for my workflow)
-Lower Temperatures, Weeell I live in Canada if you know what I meant ;)
-Easy and cheaper design to replace Sensor in the future (instead of sending the camera to red)


I was unsure about going from MX to Dragon and definitely it was a great decision So now as a lot of people I'm skeptical with weapon so at the end I may upgrade anyways :S I really hope there is a really nice surprise feature (nobody has thought) that will be the main reason to upgrade
Click to expand...

- Dragon low light OLPF performance but with no pink orbs
- No more extreme CMOS smear nor gate shadow. No new weird artifacts

Give me that and you have my money (or my devoted rental preference of that camera from someone else). The rest is just icing.
 
either two dragon sensor stitched together and flipped... or crazy frame rates...something like that would get me...but glad they clarified this is a third highest tier and not a new generation...since that makes me a little less fixated on getting to it immediately...depending what this incentive thing is about..
 
the compression is really what holds me back from dragon, and weapon which is yet to hit the market. I have put scarlet 4k against dragon 6k a couple times and keep walking away with the feeling... dragon is better yes, but by how much? not enough that can not be compensated with, in production with better lighting and post with a solid colorist. Im not saying this to hate on RED. they are innovators almost to fault and I love them for that. At the end of the day though I have to figure out which dollars go into my families mouths and which go into cameras, and the compression makes 6k not net enough over 4k to really seal the deal, but makes a solid rental option on big budgets. Making a compression issue a thing of the past could probably push me to just ditch my scarlet and buy a weapon. As much as I love RAW I think that prores may usher in the era of downsample 6k to 4k prores, which may solve a ton of compression problems.

The problem at that point though is... how much difference do I see in 6k downscaled to 4k compared to low compression 3k/4k delivered at 4k. I personally hope its mind blowing and I have the same feeling I did with the first time I shot with RED one... efff film I wanna shoot RED
 
Brian Merlen said:
either two dragon sensor stitched together and flipped... or crazy frame rates...something like that would get me...but glad they clarified this is a third highest tier and not a new generation...since that makes me a little less fixated on getting to it immediately...depending what this incentive thing is about..
Click to expand...

What incentive thing do you speak of?
 
the place an order NAB week discount incentive...I really want to do it, but kind of have to see what the features and deposit is... Very exciting times..
 
Brian Merlen said:
the place an order NAB week discount incentive...I really want to do it, but kind of have to see what the features and deposit is... Very exciting times..
Click to expand...

I think if RED already know they should announce specification now. otherwise looks like they trying to play a game with people pushing them to make an impulsive decision during NAB to place the order during those few days because of the incentive.

To me the announcement of asking people to Upgrade to Dragon if they want Weapon before NAB is kind of absurd. Who the hell is going to make those commitments to something they don't know yet? if they haven't upgrade to Dragon yet is because they don't want to, telling them about weapon I don't think will change anybody minds at this point.
 
Andrey Blanco said:
I think if RED already know they should announce specification now. otherwise looks like they trying to play a game with people pushing them to make an impulsive decision during NAB to place the order during those few days because of the incentive.

To me the announcement of asking people to Upgrade to Dragon if they want Weapon before NAB is kind of absurd. Who the hell is going to make those commitments to something they don't know yet? if they haven't upgrade to Dragon yet is because they don't want to, telling them about weapon I don't think will change anybody minds at this point.
Click to expand...

I don't see why RED needs to tip their hands. There are many announcements from many brands...we don't know about.

Across the board with Weapon, RED seems to have "learned". About ergonomics, about Prores, about heat/fan (it appears), about on board audio (mini XLRs), about announcing too much (they've been guilty in the past of giving it all away). The only thing they maybe stumbled on was the name, but we're all talking about...so maybe even there they know what they're doing (they probably do, I'm giving it to them).
 
NAB announcements are a tricky game. If you announce early, you do it so you don't get lost in the crowd the day of. Or you go hard and big on the first day of NAB to drown out everyone else. RED won't be showing all the cards until NAB.
 
-Higher Dynamic Range ( I'm OK with 20+ but If they can push a bit more definitly will be enough reason to jump in to it) i wanna make beatiful pictures but couldnt be done with current DR...
lol just jk :)
 
To me:

4:3 FF or bigger sensor
Lower compression
ProRes (just makes it so much versatile, especially if you can record a scaled signal)
Multiple outputs with multiple LUTs
Solid integration of i-data and LDS
Working gyroscope data and a good way to access them frame-accurate with a sample per frame.
Whatever more they squeeze out of the sensor without making the image "thinner"
No blackshading for different shutters
Dual EVF/LCD (RED)
Integrated ND
Lower latency SDI.
Integrated TC unit
XLR
Hard controls for audio-levels (at least as an option with a module).
Wifi built in

for a start :)
 
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Gunleik Groven said:
To me:

4:3 or bigger sensor
Lower compression
ProRes (just makes it so much versatile, especially if you can record a scaled signal)
Multiple outputs with multiple LUTs
Solid integration of i-data and LDS
Working gyroscope data and a good way to access them frame-accurate with a sample per frame.
Whatever more they squeeze out of the sensor without making the image "thinner"
No blackshading for different shutters
Dual EVF/LCD (RED)
Lower latency SDI.
Integrated TC unit
XLR
Hard controls for audio-levels (at least as an option with a module).
Wifi built in

for a start :)
Click to expand...

What he said :)

4:3 - ahhh - anamorphic fun.
 
A true global shutter and integrated NDs, that's all of me. I have more than enough DR and resolution than I know what to do with. As a side note to Red, the idea of interchangeable OLPFs does not fly with a lot of us. There needs to be one OLPF to rule them all. A filter that offers all the goodness of the STH with the lowlight beauty of the LLO.
 
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