What will *you* rent it for?

[Chris Parker]

In the immortal words of Daffy Duck. " You have unmitigated gaul sir, and I demand satisfaction!"

Super Soakers at dawn!!!!!

hahahaha

 

[Russ McDonald]

Brook are ok with the exercise purposed.

 

[Brook Willard]

It's all the same to me, discussions run freely.

 

[Scott Webster]

I honestly expect that a RED DIT will be able to pull roughly $1,000/day... at least at first. Set up the camera, give the AC a basic rundown, copy and confirm the footage to a computer/RAID system, troubleshoot if necessary, etc. When knowledge becomes wider spread, that number will drop... but in my opinion, a RED DIT should never make under $600/10+2xOT.

Remember that my opinions are always very narrative cine-oriented. The ENG/EFP/wedding [grouped together for simplicity, not to offend] folks may disagree.

Brook, Only in the US could you command that type of rate. Would that rate include a Macbook raid rig? You've just given more reason for Sound Recordists to become more bitter and twisted than they already are :wink:

 

[Russ McDonald]

All right then Man up or Woman up if your Dave (sorry Dave I just cant help myself)

Anybody have a production question they need for the bid.

 

[Paul Hazlett]

Skip In the immortal words of Daffy Duck. " You have unmitigated gaul sir, and I demand satisfaction!"

Super Soakers at dawn!!!!!

in the carrot juice soaked words of Bugs Bunny "of course you know this means WAR!!

 

[Russ McDonald]

Alright man up Phaz where you at (G). Do you think this bid exercise is worth the time.

 

[Paul Hazlett]

I respect you but strongly disagree. Regardless of the output it has to be done by somebody.


If Brook is up for it, lets spin this thread a little.

Bid my 4k project people.

Two Cameras matched primes (use the red prime set as a reference) arri mb20 matte box and fallow focus. Both read zooms. Redcode archived, 1080p for the offline edit.

It's 118 pages, two pages a day schedule(60 days) with 15:1 shooting ratio camera. that rounds up to 30 hours of total footage.

Just an intellectual exercise. So feel free to refine and expand the gear and personnel. Remember if I was shooting super35mm, Just processing,telecining, sound syncing Dailies, and HDsr transfers is going to run me about 2000 a day.

At three day weeks and data back up included I would ballpark 67500
based on 63 days ( easier math) 9 weeks at 2500 a day all inclusive bells and
whistles.

multiply for as many cameras as you want.

I would require a good quality string cheese at craft services though. A deal
breaker for some but thats the way it has to be.

 

[Russ McDonald]

Perhaps a good brie, and triskets

126000, for film processing package. Not including the cost of the camera package.

You can get more!!!!

 

[Paul Hazlett]

could get more, but my red would be paid for and I make money. client saves
money calls me next time, everybody wins. I like charging whats fair not how much. On the East coast this would be a good deal and a money maker.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Perhaps a good brie, and triskets

126000, for film processing package. Not including the cost of the camera package.

You can get more!!!!

Hi,

And that's the crunch time, somebody gets greedy & producers revert to shooting 35mm. I am shooting a film in October, We can get a deal on the film (read free), so it looks like shooting 35mm without a DI will be cheaper than digital.

Stephen

 

[Ramesh Jai]

It is posters like this who will have their RED out on set with some jackass out of film school who gave them $400 for the day, and return it beat to shit.

Running a professional rental service takes time and money. The purchase price of the camera is only one place that rental has to cover. Maintenence, overhead, etc. all take money. My clients wouldn't dream of renting a camera from some schlep who says he'll 'give 'em a great deal'. They would much prefer to spend a few hundred dollars extra to get a bulletproof system (with backups) from someone who they trust.

Jackass out of film school..? Is that what film schools produce where you come from?

Frankly I have nothing against charging whatever you want for your talent. It can be $1 to $10m.. it's your uniqueness that earns you your price. I still maintain my views on the price of renting just the Red body and EVF.

 

[Paul Hazlett]

Hi,

And that's the crunch time, somebody gets greedy & producers revert to shooting 35mm. I am shooting a film in October, We can get a deal on the film (read free), so it looks like shooting 35mm without a DI will be cheaper than digital.

Stephen

my point exactly. Part of the appeal of red is less costly aquisition

 

[I Bloom]

Regarding fear uncertainty and rental prices...

Regarding fear uncertainty and rental prices...

Have you heard the joke about the guy who came to fix the companies computer upon which their entire bussiness was dependant. He came in clicked on a few menus and the computer was fixed. Then he sent in an invoice for $10,000. The President of the company called and protested saying that he had only pressed a few buttons. He said allright, I'll send in my itemized invoice. The new invoice listed "1. Pressing buttons $1" "2. Knowing which buttons to press. $9,999."

Corny right I know. I think if you are a RED reservation holder, some of this logic applies to you. You made a smart and timely investment, you should reap the benefits of the postion you created for yourself in the market. This is no different than buying stock in a startup company.

If you are automatically lowering your prices before you have even had a chance to see what the market will bear, please reconsider.

Consider for a moment the word 'value' and please ask yourself, just exactly how is it measured and how does it relate to price. If you believe there has ever been some sort of direct relationship between value and price then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken and likely to be trod on in this here capitalist system. There is only a tenuous relationship between price, and the cost to make something. There is only a tenuous relationship between price and the value that can be created by something. In fact as is proven over and over to us every day price is only determined by percieved cost to produce, percieved value and percieved demand. It's all psycological, based on the flow of information, nothing more. So find the price that is going to best fit your market and do so by starting high and negotiating with your potential clients.

This is a game that goes both ways, as you sell the percieved value of your services, pushing it higher, your clients are selling the percieved value of their opportunity, as they attempt to bring your prices down.

I'd like you to encourage you to step up your game and play a little harder.

The reason I voted for <$500 is because I'm only just starting my business and I have absolutely zero clients. As soon as my schedule starts filling up I reserve the right to raise the price for any new bookings. I would prefer not to have to rent my RED out, but since I don't have any of my own immediate projects planned, I may as well rent it out. Besides, most of my own stuff will be shot in a greenscreen studio, and that can be done whenever the camera is not rented out. I just don't want to spend all my money on such an incredible system and then have it just sit there....

I have to disagree with your logic. I really respect your work and I think you are selling yourself short. You have a lot of technical ability and skill. You and your camera, are rare and worth a lot of money.

By saying that you will lower your prices immediately in order to attract clients, you are presupposing failure. Curran, I'd like to persuade you to take a different strategy. You have a month or so before you start working your RED. You should consider advertising, increasing your footprint, finding clients who are willing to pay a fair price for your gear and services. You will make more money, have more time and money for your own projects and you will be working with professionals who can help you to expand your knowledge and your network.

Lowering your prices immediately and trying to make up the difference on volume will lead, I believe, to failure, wasted time and hassle. This seems counterintuitive but I think its true. I've been there, I know your strategy doesn't work.

Curran, I have a few contacts in production in Mass. PM me, I'd like to help you.

IBloom

 

[laguun]

Hi,

And that's the crunch time, somebody gets greedy & producers revert to shooting 35mm. I am shooting a film in October, We can get a deal on the film (read free), so it looks like shooting 35mm without a DI will be cheaper than digital.

Stephen

we will see more and more outstanding 35mm offers in the near future.

Fuji agreed to to fully sponsor (read free) a recent filmout (89 minutes) done here.

however, 35mm processing takes time. so if time isn´t a substantial part in your calculation, leave that out. and, when shooting in remote locations, having >10 hours of footage in a small box is quite a moneysaver as well.

working without di, as in the old days, certainly is cheaper. some people however prefer using the creative possibilities available.

 

[Russ McDonald]

Well sounds like, you like brie. And my word of the day is spreading.
I got a Viper quote for 7500 a day for two cams with bells and whistles, and there lining up for that rate guys.

Listen don't tell Dave I've been picking on him in this thread. He's Australian he'll escalate it to water balloons, then I have to go with buckets. Then he'll go garden hoses, I'm American I got to go fire trucks. All that collateral dampness. Mothers running with wet kids, their mascara running it would by aguageddon. I think in the interest of world dry-ness we should keep it between us.

 

[Russ McDonald]

Ibloom, Ballpark me for shooting in New York.

You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

[Russ McDonald]

laguun can you put a link for that info please.

 

[Häakon]

I think if you are a RED reservation holder, some of this logic applies to you. You made a smart and timely investment, you should reap the benefits of the postion you created for yourself in the market. This is no different than buying stock in a startup company.

If you are automatically lowering your prices before you have even had a chance to see what the market will bear, please reconsider.

Consider for a moment the word 'value' and please ask yourself, just exactly how is it measured and how does it relate to price. If you believe there has ever been some sort of direct relationship between value and price then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken and likely to be trod on in this here capitalist system.

Post of the year.

 

[I Bloom]

Post of the year.

:matrix: