What will *you* rent it for?

[Martin Drew]

Reputable places all over the country (Clairmont, Abel Cine, Fletcher Chicago) are still renting their fixed-lens HVXs for $400 a day or more.

Interestingly I just had a look at other rental prices at Abel Cinetech

Panasonic AG-HVX200 HD Camera. Daily Rate: $425.00
Aaton A-Minima Camera. Daily Rate: $225.00

Now the Aaton costs about $15000, so it tends to support Stephens argument.

M

 

[Matthew Rogers]

The thing is, do you really want someone who can afford a $500 rental playing with the RED? Will they even have insurance for the rental? Around here the RED is going to replace VariCam and 16MM rentals--both which run $800-$1500 a day.

This is how I break it down for my camera.

$600 - Camera Body + RED Drive + Pro Production Pack
$100 - 2 Batts and charger
$50 - Matte box
$50 - Follow Focus
$300 - Cooke 18-100

So I'm looking around $1100 a day. Heck, a Varicam here is $1100 a day without mattebox or FF, and not as good a lens.

Matthew

 

[Champe Barton]

A few thoughts on pricing:

It's a lot easier to start high and come down than start low and try to go up.

I'll be charging about what my F900 was getting and I'll be going with it as owner/operator, DP or DIT. My F900 will be available for rent at a discount as long as a valid insurance certificate is supplied and I know someone on the crew. The Florida market where I work has a real mix of professional, highly qualified and decent people all the way down to pond scum, so one has to be cautious.

It's been my experience that most honorable people are willing to pay a reasonable rate for equipment but knowledge and experience are the added value you can bring to the package and people are willing to pay for that. If not, you probably don't want to work for them.

The less you charge for a job the more work you'll have to do.

Taking really low budget jobs attracts more really low budget jobs.

Under pricing equipment in a market hurts everybody.

Be fair and build relationships.

Just some thoughts,

Champe

 

[Steve Freebairn]

It should be interesting to see where the price ends up adjusting too. We plan on renting our Red with a ton of accessories, but more importantly with a workflow that gets the clients data to them safely with backups. After the initial recording of the data on either CF or the Reddrive, the data will always have a backup (you can PM me if you're interested in our plan) on data tape and hdds.

I think that the workflow and knowledge of how to handle the information once it is recorded will end up being more profitable than even the camera rental itself. Eventually people will be able to just buy the camera, but that doesn't mean they'll know how to get their data safely and more securely than film from the set to their NLE.

We'll be doing 3 day weeks and other deals with clients, but it definitely won't be sub 500 unless something really sweet is included in the deal

 

[Mark B.]

I doubt I'd rent out the body and EVF for less than $1k per day (that's for the long term, for the high-demand initial period I'd be asking more than that). My asking price would likely not be the lowest in town, but it's what I'd need to be paid to feel justified in letting someone else muck about with my camera.

I'm not about to get involved in price-wars with the rental houses, they're already geared up to win that challenge. But the rental house cameras get used a lot, so maybe renters will pay a little extra to use a RedOne that has low mileage. Same deal with other private owners... the lower their asking price the more their cameras are going to get used and abused. For the safest shoot, you'd want to rent a camera that rents for a higher price.

 

[Stephen Williams]

For the safest shoot, you'd want to rent a camera that rents for a higher price.

Hi,

A good rental house will have back up cameras available for there clients if the worst should happen. Do you have any contingency plans?

Stephen

 

[Nook Kim]

Red One Rental Plan

Red One Rental Plan

Hi,

Based on all of those posts that I have been reading regarding renting my Red One camera,
I've come up with an interesting approach to generate a good amount of profit.

Just my answer to this poll, I am planning on pricing my Red One camera body, Production Pack,
Power Pack, EVF & LCD, and a Red Drive for around $600 per day. Okay, it sounds very cheap
for a 4K solution to me. However, there will be additional charges per anything else that the user
wants to take with this package.

I'm sure people will want to get a second Red Drive = Additional cost.
A set of lenses (either Nikon's or Red's) = Additional cost.
Other recording medium than Red Drive = Additional (or different) cost.
Mattbox or FF or Tri-pod = Additional cost.

I could go on with other goodies that people might want to take with them, but you get the point.
Just one more thing I'd like to point out is that, like a lot of people here, I'm not going to
let my camera going out without me as DIT or 1AC or Operator or DP. Of course, this will
cost them an additional fee. In addition to me going out as DIT or whatever, they will be charged
for what data back-up solution they want to have. I will offer whatever makes my customer
feel safe with the data they are getting, but it will require them money to feel safe. This is
not a camera that you just rent without planning for the workflow and get crewed up.
I will offer my knowledge and skills, and they will pay for the insured workflow.

Of course, I am going to offer better rates for a week/month rental. And I am making all my rates
negotiable. It's more fun this way, even though I always tend to do a favor for others. (BTW, I haven't
rented out any equipment, so you know)

I hope this will ring the bell in the back of your head. There is so much possible incomes
we can generate with this oh-so-versatile camera package. Just make sure you give them
what they pay for. We will have to know in's and out's of the camera and it's workflow, or you
will not be asked back when something goes wrong with the camera or your workflow.

One thing that I'm a bit confused reading the posts is that some people suggest to have
my own insurance on the camera. However, I will only require the production to include
my camera in their film insurance. That's how I have been dealing with rental houses when
I rented equipment from them, and I'm not going to do anything differently.

If we are smart and know what we are doing, there is a lot of potential for renting the camera
and selling our knowledge, I think.


Best wishes,

PS. I'm going to provide a back-up camera, too. I don't have a second Red One, but that's what
you guys are for. Of course, I will pay for that.

 

[donatello b]

"as a Producer your camera is like 1/80th of my film's day cost. And if it screw's up! Guess who I'm coming after to pay for my re-shoot. If you can't pay for it I assure you, your camera is going home with me, and then-some."

if you rent from a owner-op or a big rental house - they do not cover expenses for a re-shoot ... that is covered by production insurance ..
if you decide NOT to have production insurance then it all falls on YOU.

 

[Andy Jackson]

Once the camera is released and there are real-world reports and usage available, I wouldn't be surprised to see RED have a two-year waiting list. That being said, my RED will be irreplaceable (at least for a while). Until RED is available for same-day purchase, we will be requiring an onsite consultant (essentially a bodyguard) or one of our own DP's with EVERY rental.

A key component that is being completely left out by rental houses is postproduction. This is where RED will be saving real productions the most money. Our company will not just be offering a RED rental, but rather a full RED workflow. Even if we're only involved up until the point we create ingestible, editable files for the client, we've already done more than any rental house will offer. It's our job to save our clients money by giving them the easiest and most appropriate workflow to accomplish their final output goals.

Andrew Jackson
Ichabod Studios

 

[Paul Hazlett]

What I've been thinking is,

$1K for my RedOne, Prod Bundle, Red Zoom, EVF, Flash, Harddrive
$1.5K with me coming on board as tech/operator
$2-4K for me to DP with the RED

I'm probably not going to rent mine out unless I can come along with, even if they don't want me to operate..but if they don't want me to operate, they better be paying a lot for the rental of the camera.. I'm not buying this thing to just rent out!

I can't imagine renting out my RedOne to a production with insurance, then having them drop it off a cliff, having to file an insurance claim, waiting over a year to get another RedOne. I think I will stipulate that if the camera is destroyed or stolen, I would be paid $100,000 in compensation, no joke..

That being said, I'm looking forward to the high demand that will flood the market once I and all of you receive our Reds. I'm hoping that pays the camera off in a year.

I am with you here, I am not a rental house so If my Red goes down I will lose
not its rental potential but my day rate as well. I will have a group of guys I know and trust to go out as techs if the client doesnt need a shooter and I am not available.

 

[Paul Hazlett]

A few thoughts on pricing:


The less you charge for a job the more work you'll have to do.

Taking really low budget jobs attracts more really low budget jobs.

Under pricing equipment in a market hurts everybody.

Be fair and build relationships.

Just some thoughts,

Champe

This is very true and its hard for some people to understand. I heard
of a period back in the late 90's in the toronto market where shooters
were cutting each other so bad that they were just giving there gear
away to get a day rate.

Do a good job, build a strong client base and the real clients will be happy
to pay a fair rate. emphasis on fair.

 

[Paul Hazlett]

I'm not about to get involved in price-wars with the rental houses, they're already geared up to win that challenge. But the rental house cameras get used a lot, so maybe renters will pay a little extra to use a RedOne that has low mileage. Same deal with other private owners... the lower their asking price the more their cameras are going to get used and abused. For the safest shoot, you'd want to rent a camera that rents for a higher price.

I have already talked to a local rental house about having my Red in there
inventory and when they get a call, I go out and do the job and we share
the wealth.

 

[Russ McDonald]

Thats just how we roll here in the Inland Empire, Dave and Benz! (Just kidding)

The point I was trying to make is this.

If I'm Shooting 35mm, I put about 5000 feet of film in the can a day. Then I send it to Delux, lets say for the sake of debate, something happens in the lab, human error or machine malfunction it gets destroyed, they have vary expensive insurance that indemnifies them from such a disaster. they write a check, I was inconvenienced, but I didn't loose money.

It may be just a camera gig for you, but these films are the culmination of years of work, passion, desire, and dreams. I don't know what kind of koom-by-yaa feature film environment you work in there (again I'm kidding, I know Austrailians are extreamly talented and serious professionals.) but here in the big leagues, that makes you liable and you are in an actionable possition, if you don't have the that expensive insurance. you're going to get sued. Then I am going to lean your property within legal means.

Donatello 95% of the sharks in this pond are not going to let it go, believe me. New and unproven technologies is a whole different category of risk management for insurance companies. If the fault can be tied to your equipment, your in for rough waters. Even if you win in court it's going to be expensive for you, getting your own insurance to CYA mite be prudent choice.

If all you took away from my post was that, you need to read it again. All you guys can make allot more money for your gear and your time. Maybe the best way to approach rental fees, and I'm going to type slow for Dave..... Should be final output.

HD 1080p.... 1200 a day

2k..... 2000 a day


4k..... 2500+

You get the point, that way you still stay competitive in your individual environments, but a premium service demands a premium fee.


•••Note to Dave•••

I kidd because, I love. I have nothing but respect for you brother. I'm playful smart ass. But your an Australian I think you handle it. Please send me you contact info. If I end up shooting down there I can throw some work your way.

 

[Chris Parker]

Our company will not just be offering a RED rental, but rather a full RED workflow. Even if we're only involved up until the point we create ingestible, editable files for the client, we've already done more than any rental house will offer. It's our job to save our clients money by giving them the easiest and most appropriate workflow to accomplish their final output goals.

Andrew Jackson
Ichabod Studios

What is your workflow plan to get the client editable files?

 

[Chris Parker]

that makes you liable and you are in an actionable possition, if you don't have the that expensive insurance. you're going to get sued. Then I am going to lean your property within legal means. 95% of the sharks in this pond are not going to let it go, believe me.

The question is...if a red drive fails on set during the backup process, is it like a scratched neg? If so, that would fall directly under your 'big league' insurance.

If it is like a problem during transfer, then it may fall under the RED workflow company's insurance.

I am sure that both ways will be done, depending on the deal struck between camera rental place and production.

 

[Julian Banos]

I will be renting my cameras in Mexico City and I am trying to get everyone else with reservation here to have minimum charges, something that competes with Varicam and CineAlta, but keeping in mind that the RED One is a much better camera.
I personally dont buy into the whole 2% or 1% idea for this product. At least not now. But I still have not figured out the whole post-production part of it. And how much should I be charging. Anyone has any thoughts on this? Or should this be another post?

Thanks

 

[Andy Jackson]

What is your workflow plan to get the client editable files?

REDCINE, of course. Since we'll have a staff member included with every RED rental, we'll be providing data backups and on-site dailies. I probably have not been paying attention as much as I should have, but as far as I know, initially only RED owners will have licensing to REDCINE. We'll provide either full res or offline editable files, depending on the NLE and final output intentions of the client.

The best and most cost-effective method for our clients *should* be to go with our company through their entire production, start to finish. We've got several experienced editors in the area that we hire out depending on the genre/style of the production. Keeping as much of the process as possible in-house will keep their production extremely consistent.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

I think you will find Deluxe will replace the film only, thats it! You have to insure the film for its full replacement value. Its the same for your media.

Stephen

Thats just how we roll here in the Inland Empire, Dave and Benz! (Just kidding)

The point I was trying to make is this.

If I'm Shooting 35mm, I put about 5000 feet of film in the can a day. Then I send it to Delux, lets say for the sake of debate, something happens in the lab, human error or machine malfunction it gets destroyed, they have vary expensive insurance that indemnifies them from such a disaster. they write a check, I was inconvenienced, but I didn't loose money.

 

[Chris Parker]

REDCINE, of course. Since we'll have a staff member included with every RED rental, we'll be providing data backups and on-site dailies. I probably have not been paying attention as much as I should have, but as far as I know, initially only RED owners will have licensing to REDCINE. We'll provide either full res or offline editable files, depending on the NLE and final output intentions of the client.

The best and most cost-effective method for our clients *should* be to go with our company through their entire production, start to finish. We've got several experienced editors in the area that we hire out depending on the genre/style of the production. Keeping as much of the process as possible in-house will keep their production extremely consistent.

Gotcha. But what is your on-set data management and backing up workflow?

 

[Nik Manning]

Truth be told about Red rental prices is that once there are more than 1,000 on the street the rental price will drop very low. Think of all the people who will just barely be able to afford this camera. They have to pay their credit card bill every month so if someone wants to rent it for $400 a day it is rented. That is how it goes.

For the most part I see a package going for between $1000-$1500 for the first 500 and $800-$1200 for the next 500 after that mostly between $750-$1000. I think folks renting will think I should just buy it but they might not get them when they need them. That is the problem.