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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What will we do when it breaks?

With you, I probably would. But this would not be with all AC's. Don't you have my number on speed dial?
 
CrewPix.com said:
At one particular rental house, the camera completely crashed while attempting to read the settings file created by Panasonic's own software. This card had previously worked flawlessly with cameras rented in London, Tokyo and Munich and had even been sent by email to another shooter to use in L.A.
Click to expand...

This happened to me as well. I was loading the settings from a different Varicam to the one from our rental house. Luckily it was friday at noon. So I only had to wait for two hours for the Panasonic tech to come back from lunch ;-)

Apparently there are two versions of the Varicam (A and B) which have incompatible settings.
Let's hope Red settings are always backwards-compatible and don't brick cameras!
 
Hi Guys,
Seems to be a lot of concern here about reliability issues with
Red on high end shoots, commercials mostly. The solution is TWO
camera bodies. At Reds price point for rental it's not even worth
thinking about for these types of productions. Commercials usually
have budgets for 35mm film and a lot of it, 100 to 1 ratio in most cases.
I've shot commercials with production budgets in the US $1-2 million range, second helicopter may be a problem a second camera body, never.
It's insurance. Even with smaller budgets it's still a cheap form of insurance.
And Crewpix, I'm also a DP who can't thread an Arri 435 or set up a
Varicam but I can load and thread a Mitchell BNCR or Panavision PVSR
faster than any man women or child on the planet. Problem is, not a lot of
call for it these days. Tragic old fart huh.
One day, if you make the move to DP, you like me will not need to
trouble yourself with minor AC things .
Cheers Mezmo
 
The camera bodies are currently renting for more than their HD counterparts. A backup body is a pretty hard-sell for most projects.

And if both bodies have the same problem firmware it doesn't matter how many you have, does it?
 
Hi Crewpix,
Give it 6-12 months, rentals will come down.
The chances of both cameras crapping out at the same time are pretty minimal.
You can sell the second body as a time saver to producers. Pre rig
Stedicam, cars, choppers, remote heads, that sort of thing. It doesn't have to spend the day sleeping in it's pelican case.
Red is new tech and if TVC producers want to use it they have to be aware
of it's limitations up untill it's a solid bulletproof acquisition system.
2nd body is the best way to handle that.
You can get over the firmware issue by having different builds in different
bodies

Mezmo.
 
jbeale said:
Cold temperature (-15 C) is apparently one problem that backup bodies and different firmware loads will not necessarily solve. See: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=119519&postcount=41
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking when I wrote that.

It has already been discussed in this thread that rental houses won't let users install firmware, and that non-owners can't download firmware versions anyway.

Adding $1500 to a $4000 rental day isn't taken lightly by the producers I deal with.

I have certainly done shoot days where a backup/2nd body was deemed necessary, either when the cost was less than the crew overtime it might save, or the potential cost of downtime was unacceptable.

I'm just trying in this thread to emphasize that many of us are used to bullet-proof, it-just-works, kind of gear and it is my great desire that we can all help Red get to that point. Hopefully these discussions add to that.
 
Hi Crewpix,
Let's look at the average media spend for an Ad campaign.
More ofen than not it's in the millions of dollars.
Production costs for even lower end TVC's are in the $75-200K range.
I know people make commercials for $20-30K when the campaign media
spend is in the millions. Why people work cheap and help destroy an
otherwise viable industry is beyond me. Maybe these guys will bitch about
a $1500 (soon to be $700) addition to rental, I wouldn't know I don't work for the arseholes.
Most real TVC producers would not have a problem.
Let me just say again, Red is not bulletproof and it's use in cold climates is
just one of many 'to be improved issues'. 2nd camera body won't solve every problem on set but it will get you out of that massivly expensive
bunfight when one camera goes down and you have to wait 2-4 hours to
replace it. On a TVC that's madness. And another days shoot.
Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Most real TVC producers would not have a problem.
Click to expand...

I work on million dollar ad campaigns. Regularly. But you're working with different producers than I am, my friend. I just got a phone call over a change that amounted to a total of $2.38 on my invoice. It apparently was worth it for someone to dial the digits and talk to me for 4 minutes over $2.38.

I am trying to avoid the need for the following conversation:
"$1500 extra because the camera might break?!? Get a better camera!"
 
Hi Crewpix,
At some stage Red will be a reliable digital system. If that doesn't happen
the company will cease to exist.
That time is not now Crewpix. Cool it dude, untill that day arrives.
I'd suggest the Arri D20 if you need another camera for a single camera
digital TVC shoot. Commercial budgets can afford it. Or shoot film.
The rental for the D20 will be about the same as a Red One camera with a back-up Red One body when more Red units are out on the ground
and available for hire. Still early days.
Red is what it is. A cheap and cheerfull but potentially very capable digital
system still in development.
Hope this helps
Mezmo
 
jbeale said:
Cold temperature (-15 C) is apparently one problem ... stuff deleted...
Click to expand...

here's my humble experience with technology. i went out to DV, Death Valley, last August to shoot my little indie film. took the latest digital gear, i could afford from a small shop in LA, which i won't name.

temp was ~40C++/110F+? while shooting some opening shots, the hard drive wouldn't work at all even though the fan sounded like a jet engine about to blow it guts out. the LCD display basically fried on the camera and hard drive. eventually had to stop when switching from 'digital' hard drive to good old SD tape but then discovered that the shop had put in the WRONG type of Firewire cable. even i know the difference between a 1394A and 1394B cable.

the great piece of modern hardware was the apple macbook pro, it's a tough little f__ker. it was too hot touch any of the metal parts but with a bluetooth mouse i was able to verfiy the flash drives and raid weren't doing a damn thing. it worked all the time, every time. no i don't work for apple.

next weekend with actor, i junked the idea of digital bullshit and went with an old Arri-IIC and 10 rolls of Kodak B&W. that old bastard of an Arri-IIC was unstoppable. the wind at one point blew it over even though it was sandbagged. i picked it up and continued filming. yes i had insurance btw. next time i'm in a tough place, film all the way.
 
mezmo said:
That time is not now Crewpix. Cool it dude
Click to expand...

Mezmo. I have seen you jump to some rather confrontational conclusions in other threads as well. Looks like it is my turn.

If you have read any of my previous messages, you will see that I am trying my damndest, through this board and other channels, to work with Red and the Red community to help everyone make this exceptionaly promising camera into something bulletproof that we can recommend and rent with confidence.

I am not putting it down or saying it's crap. I am asking how myself as a professional can prepare for potential breakdowns on set, and also avert them by encouraging the development of more robust technologies.

Excuuuuse me for trying to help develop something I believe in. Your suggestion of shooting with a D20 until Red is ready accomplishes nothing.

As a 16 year vetern of commercial and music video production perhaps I have a unique perspective that, applied properly, can help all of us one day own a much better camera.

I won't "cool it", dude.
 
Yeh mezmo, cool it dude.
 
Hi Crewpix,
Sorry Crepix, don't intend to offend, but your the sort of guy
who likes to do things in the traditional photochemical way.
If I may be so bold.
Nothing wrong with that, good sound practise and it worked well
for me over the 35 years I've spent in the camera department myself.
I think this tech is a little different. film has been about for 100+ years
Digital Cinema is the new kid on the block and needs to be approached with caution, it could bite ya.
My suggestion for a 2nd camera body is based on 20 years experience as a
DP. The last few years Digital.
I'm not interested in a pissing match here, so end of discussion on my part.
If you have your own ideas Crewpix then go with them and have a good Christmas. Yes the "cool it dude" comment was a bit harsh. I'll put my
teeth back in and watch my tongue in the future. Cheers and apologies.
Ow, and have happy new year too..........Mezmo
 
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